Bette Midler

[FireFlyBoogaloo]

Just posted on Twitter. The usual suspects are all over the replies, obviously, so give her some support if you can—but there's a surprising amount of balance. Seems to me that the scales have finally started to tip.

It was always going to be sunlight.

---WOMEN OF THE WORLD! We are being stripped of our rights over our bodies, our lives and even of our name! They don’t call us “women” anymore; they call us “birthing people” or “menstruators”, and even “people with vaginas”!
Don’t let them erase you! Every human on earth owes you!---

I keep thinking so. The whole thing seems to involve more and more really hysterical invective so I think it can't get any more intense, but so far there is no clear sign it will abate.

Isn't Shappi a massive labour supporter? Perhaps she fancies a future career in politics and has weighed up that's it's better to repeat the party mantra.

Diverging here but what is with these women in comedy? So happy to spin feminism for a laugh, so febrile at actually having a go at this in your face real, blatant mysogyny?

The "inclusive" thing is interesting. Because if you used the same logic for everything, the result would be completely bonkers.

There’s a great comedy sketch just waiting to be made there!

Bette Midler! Awesome :)

It was funny, probably went over her head though.

Also I think it's odd that she framed not using the word women in official literature as 'a small nod' to a minority. But stated quite clearly she had no intention of using inclusive language in her private life.

Was just thinking the very same

‘Also I think it's odd that she framed not using the word women in official literature as 'a small nod' to a minority. But stated quite clearly she had no intention of using inclusive language in her private life.’

Because she knows it’s not true. Otherwise she would say it all the time, wouldn’t she?

You wouldn’t get away with saying, ‘I only use racial slurs at home.’ Language is either acceptable or it isn’t acceptable. If it’s an issue to say “women” and mean “adult human females” then it’s an issue everywhere.

He partner made a disastrous attempt to get into politics from a comedy career. So I doubt she'd be tempted.

Comedy seems overrun with the very posh. The very posh often rise further than their raw processing power might indicate they should.

Disappointed and confused by the Twitter response to this - it’s overwhelmingly anti Bette. Everyone saying “oh Bette, be kind - no one is is erasing women, simply asking women to use that language.” I feel like I’m being slightly gaslit - I am vehemently gender critical and hate the language changes but some of the points seem valid?! (Apart from
be kind - I will never be kind 😂!)

I feel like I’m being slightly gaslit - I am vehemently gender critical and hate the language changes but some of the points seem valid?! (Apart from
be kind - I will never be kind 😂!)

I'd say I feel like I'm being slightly gaslit too, but is it still gaslighting when the gaslighter is failing abjectly in the attempt?

So hold on, they’re not erasing women, just asking women to use language which erases themselves. Yeah it’s gaslighting and stereotypical abuse moves. Get the victim to abuse themselves. Then they can say’well women chose to use that language, we didn’t make them’.

@Dinosaurhearmeroar

They are not ‘asking’, they are demanding. What happens is this: most people use language exactly they way they always have. Some people bring in a linguistic innovation (like cervix-owners). The people who complain about this are disgusting ‘terfs’ and become unmentionable. The people who continue to go along with it are ‘allies’, and some of the people who don’t say anything are assumed to agree with it. Then an ‘ally’ steps marginally out of line. They say something that demonstrates that they still think in the old way. Maybe they say a film is really good and mention the name of a female actress who subsequently transitioned. Maybe they say they think there should be women-only rape crisis centres. Whatever. They are eviscerated, displaying to everyone else what happens if you depart from the new orthodoxy. They apologise, and next time, when the language is more dehumanising, and they might feel they don’t like it (womb carriers?) they don’t say anything. Apostates, not heathens. Inner Party, Outer Party and proles.

I see arguments from both sides and many are from those who always tweet from the same angle. It's not the same as what happened to JK Rowling when she came out of the uterus-haver closet.

Baby steps, perhaps, and so on, but there is a change in the climate.

Yes, this is much closer to what happens.

First women are erased, then women who complain are gently educated in how important their erasure is for a group which is like a gnat compared to the size of the female population (elephant-sized except far bigger), and then those who still complain are called bigots.

So it is a very clear statement that women's rights do not matter and that women should step aside and applaud others.

That many mainstream feminists do this is the devastating aspect here.

I have written this before, but it's as if the trans activists ask for a chair at the table where societal decisions are made, and when most others tell them to pull up a chair, they explain that they don't want an empty chair, they want the chair on which women's rights activists sit.

And so the latter are pushed to the floor and asked to leave the room and if they protest they are seen as denying the trans activists a chair at the table.

Also her tweet has over 90k likes which says a lot I think. The silent majority agree with her.

Yes they are gaslighting us. It’s just like calling us breeders.

Twitter's algorithm shows you specifically chosen replies first. Not chronologically, not based on most likes but based on the way the people who wrote the algorithm want the discussion to appear to be going.

As of two minutes ago, that tweet had 91,300 likes. Her sentiment is popular but Twitter controls how the conversation appears.

@nepeta

Yes, first it was they wanted to be ‘included’ (which ‘women and transwomen’ might do in certain social situations and ‘women and transmen’ might do in certain biological situations), and then it was that they wanted us not to use language in that way for ourselves at all. We were to be ‘cis women’ and then ‘menstruators’, or ‘women’ was to include males. Kindness was never going to be enough, they want compliance and to be in charge of other people and their thoughts. I’m not even in charge of my thoughts, I’m not outsourcing them to random social justice warriors!

Inclusive language excludes the possibility that for many (I think most of us, actually) being a woman or a man is based on biological sex. When uterus-havers or similar euphemisms are used, it is quite clear that 'women' is no longer allowed to refer to anything based on being of the female sex.

So inclusiveness does NOT include those who have embodied gender 'identities' (in a loose sense), but forces on them a new abstract floating feeling of femininity or masculinity. This is erasure and not inclusion.

I have written this before, but it's as if the trans activists ask for a chair at the table where societal decisions are made, and when most others tell them to pull up a chair, they explain that they don't want an empty chair, they want the chair on which women's rights activists sit.

And so the latter are pushed to the floor and asked to leave the room and if they protest they are seen as denying the trans activists a chair at the table.

Good analogy.

Love Bette, the Divine Miss M forever, And the Fabulous Macy Gray!

I'm not on twitter so have purchased more of their music to show support and have upticked on youtube.

@nepeta

They mean you ‘can’ say woman when you actually mean females who identify as women and males who identify as women, but when you just mean females you can’t.

What they’re missing is that telling women what they can and can’t say and when they can and can’t say it is inherently oppressive, and not exactly new.

Bette's being told to "do better."

Macy is getting death threats.

All sounds rather witch trial like.

Unfortunately we all could have predicted this response. I hope they are both okay. It must be horrific pressure.

Never a better time than now for as many high profile like minded, influential people, to show support to Bette and Macy.