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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

TRAs attempting to obstruct Cass review.

147 replies

FireFlyBoogaloo · 03/07/2022 11:02

Saw this on Twitter. It seems that TRAs and captured alphabet groups are co-ordinating to try and stop the Cass review getting access to data that will allow the results of experimental treatment for trans-identifying children to be assessed.

twitter.com/CTransTalks/status/1542834235752448002

Might be worth writing to Javid, Cass and perhaps Baroness Nicholson and any other interested parties to make them aware and also to express support for the review.

TRAs attempting to obstruct Cass review.
OP posts:
JacquelinePot · 03/07/2022 12:58

If online activists and gender identity organisations are so sure that transing children is the right thing to do, they should welcome this research as it will prove them right. That they are trying to sabotage it speaks volumes

SallyLockheart · 03/07/2022 13:04

I am starting to hope that the government is now, finally realising how much Stonewall is acting secretly behind closed agreements to get where it wants to be. There was been lots of sunlight recently and I would like to think all the dots are joining up

the CASS review
the information commissioner’s requesting Oxford university share their stonewall marking scheme and advice - please please let that be extended to all other public bodies
departments leaving stonewall but that is only effective if no other such bodies step in their place
fair sport for women - Dorries seems to have grasped the issues that the sporting bodies are promoting inclusion over fairness because they are frightened of being sued by the trans lobby- real bully boy tactics
lots of legal cases, Maya, Allison, Sarah to name but a few plus Julie Bindell is up for the fight
there’s a telegraph headline today that Kemi Badenoch wants all new public buildings to have single sex toilets as the starting premise
Miriam Cates is highlighting the lunacy of some RSE teaching in schools

BootsAndRoots · 03/07/2022 13:40

I think we have to be careful when thinking that medical records will show detransition.

Listening to a podcast recently with the Dutch therapists who developed the concept of puberty blockers for gender dysmorphia, anyone who detransitions does not want to play any part in follow-up consultation over how life has been since the original surgery. Therefore you get statistics that show overwhelming that people love transitioning, because those that didn't aren't in the statistics.

If people have not had surgery to remove the testicles or ovaries, then for most detransitioning simply means stopping the synthetic hormones, and won't require any medical treatment, so health organisation would be unaware of the detransition.

Dancingwithhyenas · 03/07/2022 13:43

If they believe their own hype surely they would want the data to be reviewed?!

YetAnotherSpartacus · 03/07/2022 13:47

Why are they scared?

Wouldloveanother · 03/07/2022 13:52

Conflictedunicorn · 03/07/2022 11:59

But if it’s as safe as they say, surely they would welcome the review. It would prove all the ‘haters’ wrong and confirm that this is the right way forward.

It’s like when I suggest a study to test the chromosomes of trans people to prove once and for all they have undiagnosed DSDs. Suddenly they seem reluctant..

Wouldloveanother · 03/07/2022 13:54

YetAnotherSpartacus · 03/07/2022 13:47

Why are they scared?

Because all it will really take to bring down the whole ‘gender theory’ is one huge and very high quality study. They have relied on a lack of data in their ‘prove a negative’ argument.

Mollyollydolly · 03/07/2022 13:54

Talk about showing people what you are. They do our work for us.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 03/07/2022 14:19

when I suggest a study to test the chromosomes of trans people to prove once and for all they have undiagnosed DSDs. Suddenly they seem reluctant

Published in 2015 and findable on various sites with the title: Ela Xora: the Trans Artist and Campaigner in the Silver Mask

That mask is a potent symbol of her struggle to rip apart preconceived notions of gender and gain recognition of her own gender identity--that biology is not black and white and that shades of gray should be celebrated, not denied.

Xora was raised as a boy and began presenting as a woman when she turned 25. For years, she believed that she had androgen insensitivity syndrome, or AIS, a condition that causes person who is genetically male, with XY chromosomes, to not respond to male hormones. She identified as intersex, and she thought she was lucky to escape to invasive, painful, and often lengthy surgical procedures that other intersex children undergo, a practice that the United Nations has recently denounced as "torture."

Early this year, chromosomal tests showed that Xora was mistaken—she does not have AIS. She says that this only adds to her belief that gender does not exist on a binary—and that neither trans nor intersex people should have the suffer for that. [NB I had to convert the double dash of the original into a long dash because it presented as strikethrough on this platform.]

It's not that surprising that Xora then discovered that actual chromosomal testing was irrelevant once it reported results that were unwanted and did not fit the preferred narrative.

(Yet more reason to not collaborate with the forced teaming and purposeful confusion of VSD in discussions of gender identity.)

GrabbyGabby · 03/07/2022 14:32

This IS NOT the usual way data are accessed for health research. This will be done under special licence, without the need for consent from individuals, as some COVID research has been done during the pandemic.

These data are so specific, and the group of people affected so small that true anonymisation will not be possible. Anyone with access to the data and time on their hands would be able to figure out who is who.

I suspect this license will have been granted for two reasons
1)These kids were given unproven experimental treatments. The risk of harm to them (and others following them) is so high, i think they have no choice but to act.
2)Follow up by the Tavi has been appalling, again they will have to go into the individual health records of these people to get a picture of their health post 'transition'

This is far from an ideal way to do healthcare research, but i don't think there is any other choice.

I can see why this will cause upset. I would not like my records accessed in this way without my express consent, but the alternative is too risky. The are sterilising people AND IT MAY NOT EVEN BE AN EFFECTIVE SOLUTION TO WHATEVER THE ORIGINAL ISSUES WERE.

I distrust any movement that shies away from evidence based analysis. I am appalled at the lack of calls for better data and more research into how best to support gender questioning young people from the very community that is supposed to be supporting them. Stonewall, use your millions to fund some quality research. That is what is desperately needed.

Removing healthy body parts and making people life long patients is an extreme course of action. There has to be a better way either to transition, or to help people get comfortable with the body they were born with.

Helleofabore · 03/07/2022 14:45

I saw someone on Twitter saying 'how would people feel if anyone who had an abortion had their private medical records examined by strangers looking for abortion 'regret''' or words to that effect.

And this is where some people have become too focused on ideological thinking.

Because if research showed that there was indeed an issue with abortion regret, it means that either the counselling opportunities before or after are failing. Or that there may be a factor that is not being considered that was pushing women to have abortions they felt they had to have and not that they really wanted. Such as support etc.

That is in no way the ‘gotcha’ that whoever posted that that Twitter poster thought it was. Because they are steeped in ideological thinking.

Any regret after treatment needs to be identified with research and then understood. It usually means changes need to be made and maybe in the support around the treatment rather than the actual treatment.

Only a fool would think otherwise.

Thingybob · 03/07/2022 15:36

jane-67706.medium.com/clarity-in-a-moment-of-crisis-1faf63121af2

This is what Jane Fae has written about the proposed amendment to the GRA and the Cass research.

Thingybob · 03/07/2022 15:38

Sorry posted too soon.

The conclusion is that all Trans organisations should immediately cease to engage with the Cass Review and that all the academics involved should be punished.

SallyLockheart · 03/07/2022 16:02

Well, it outlined classic Stonewall tactics as per Allison Bailey. Complain to the employer and professional bodies to discredit the academics

achillestoes · 03/07/2022 16:08

Cass has too much credibility in her field to be dismissed. Trans activists would like to pretend there is no such thing as objective knowledge of this area, so that a trans person, medically qualified or not, can claim more knowledge than a paediatrician with decades of experience, but that’s just not true so...

FireFlyBoogaloo · 03/07/2022 16:16

Wouldloveanother · 03/07/2022 13:52

It’s like when I suggest a study to test the chromosomes of trans people to prove once and for all they have undiagnosed DSDs. Suddenly they seem reluctant..

Similar thing happened to me, when a TRA insisted that trans people have other-sex brains and this was provable because studies had been done using brain scans.

I suggested that we make brain scans part of the diagnostic process, but... well. You can guess how that went.

You know, the more I think about this the angrier I get. I just can't actually believe that almost the entirety of the Western world has been convinced by ideologues to use experimental and untested, permanently irreversible medical interventions for which there are no long-term data on children. It's grotesque.

OP posts:
Humbolt · 03/07/2022 16:19

That Jane Fae link is revealing. I love the expressed intention to identify those researchers involved in this process.These are professional researchers engaged in necessary work which is having to be engaged in because of previous inadequate record keeping. And it's necessary and useful work.

I wonder what some members of the trans community will do when they have discovered the names and the contact details/social media accounts of those involved? Jane actually talks of civil disobedience and 'parking our tanks on their lawns'. I don't like the sound of that. What is Jane Fae advocating there?

Hopefully this blog post has been archived.

OldCrone · 03/07/2022 16:30

Thingybob · 03/07/2022 15:36

jane-67706.medium.com/clarity-in-a-moment-of-crisis-1faf63121af2

This is what Jane Fae has written about the proposed amendment to the GRA and the Cass research.

Extreme porn advocate Jane Fae is now portraying faeself as a protector of children?

Here are a couple of other pieces written by Fae (formerly known as John Ozimek).

www.theregister.com/2009/01/24/extreme_pron_law_live/

www.indexoncensorship.org/2009/07/another-victim-of-an-obscene-law/

Lots more evidence of Fae's real interests and priorities if you google.

ResisterRex · 03/07/2022 16:36

This is so lacking in strategy as to border on unbelievable. And yet it's believable as it fits the pattern thus far. I can see two possibilities:

  1. If they fail, they've just told the world what they tried to do.
  1. If they succeed, then the report (or separate research project, it's not clear to me) will have a great big hole in it. This does no one any good.

I suspect that this will fail. And in the end, they won't even be able to say "we didn't know and that's why we supported all the helpful people looking into this".

I don't think they can row back from either position.

achillestoes · 03/07/2022 16:44

‘You know, the more I think about this the angrier I get. I just can't actually believe that almost the entirety of the Western world has been convinced by ideologues to use experimental and untested, permanently irreversible medical interventions for which there are no long-term data on children. It's grotesque.’

It’s the scandal of the century. Like lobotomies, trans ‘healthcare’ for children is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of a set of challenging mental health conditions, and a crude attempt at knocking together a ‘treatment’.

TullyApplebottom · 03/07/2022 16:48

God, Fae writes badly. Almost unreadable.

RedToothBrush · 03/07/2022 16:55

tigger2022 · 03/07/2022 11:08

It's really silly. I saw someone who was claiming it was a GDPR breach! We do this kind of research all the time. The only difference is, this time there are some people who don't want to know the answer.

GDPR can have exemptions. These TRAs aren't too shit hot on the law.

You can have an exemption 'to protect the public' if the scope is narrow and there was a compelling argument that there could be harm to the public if you didn't. This might also include a financial aspect to the government through possible negligence too.

They can squcream and squcream all they like on this one, but there is a public interest here and a genuine concern that harm may be done to minors.

If they are going to try and block it, they need to come up with a better plan than that one, cos its not going to work. The same way as the argument about human rights being breached is probably not going to wash.

LondonWolf · 03/07/2022 16:55

You know, the more I think about this the angrier I get. I just can't actually believe that almost the entirety of the Western world has been convinced by ideologues to use experimental and untested, permanently irreversible medical interventions for which there are no long-term data on children. It's grotesque.

This is why I am worried that there will never be any retraction or honesty around these matters. So many high profile people with so much to lose, who will fight tooth and nail to prevent clarity and sunlight.

WhiteFire · 03/07/2022 16:58

TullyApplebottom · 03/07/2022 16:48

God, Fae writes badly. Almost unreadable.

Glad it wasn't just me, the small i didn't help with the reading.

RedToothBrush · 03/07/2022 16:59

SallyLockheart · 03/07/2022 11:45

Javid likened the issue to the Rotherham child grooming scandal and the fact no one wanted to call it out for fear of being seen to be racist. He has acknowledged that those girls were let down. I think he feels that the children treated under GIDS might be a similar case, so no, I don’t think he will be unduly swayed.

Child transitioners are a justification and normalisation for middle aged male late transitioners (who often don't have surgery) to hide behind.

Why?