If your child has come out as trans what are you doing?

[Eatingchips]

I suppose I am interested in this because 3 years ago my DD suggested she might be trans and it is ongoing.

She says that some days she feels like a boy and some days she feels like a girl. She considers herself non binary and has the pronouns they/them - she/her and he/him and wants all 3 used interchangeably. She has given herself a male name but we don’t use that because a diminutive of her actual name is unisex/male and I have always mainly called her the diminutive name anyway so we have stuck to that.

She has all her life been gender non conforming whatever that means or an old school tomboy and coming from that experience myself I have always whole heartedly embraced that aspect of her.

She has some trauma in her past. She also has many traits of ASD which are becoming more pronounced as she gets older and a diagnosed sibling and another sibling likely to have ASD as well.

She is fully out in school and this is rife in her friend group.

My main focus at the moment is to embrace what she says in order not to alienate her. She feels how she feels and since that isn’t rational I’m trying to meet her where she is at. I have told her that we will support her no matter what and no matter where this journey takes her but I have discussed the perils of the medicalisation of trans people and how it is unlikely that anyone who could recover psychologically if they despised their body all their lives no matter how much surgery or treatment they had. I explained to her that the brain operates on patterns of thought and just because you change your body if you continuously have patterns of thought hating your body then most likely it will take an incredible effort to shift your brain from those patterns of thought even if you’ve changed your body. That seems to have helped her to make peace with her body as it is at the moment because in many ways she is a very rational person.

But it is an incredibly tricky path and we are very reluctant to involve psychologists or medical professionals given the culture of the moment. What are others doing? I’d love to hear from other parents in a similar situation.

I don't know whether you've come across the Bayswater support group www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/ but I'd recommend them.

We have a psychologist who specialises in gender issues involved. He's been an incredible support for all of us. Her psychiatrist is also great. Her GRS surgeon was a complete arse of a man and she struggled a lot with the crap he handed out.

We were OK with funding GRS but I am extremely relieved that she has chosen to no longer pursue this at this point in time. The surgical options are not great in the country we live in.

We are open and accepting because we love her. Prior to her coming out as trans, she was suicidal more than once. Since being on hormones and living as female (and I know that's a can of worms, we've discussed openly what she sees as living as female) she has been much much happier.

The psychological aspects of bodily dysmorphia? She no longer despises and hates her body. She's had significant changes physically and is very happy with how she looks now. I didn't think she'd ever reach that point without GRS but she has.

Loving him just as much as before.

We've been on the GIDS waiting list for 2 years. He's clearly happier living as a boy and that's all that matters. He won't be allowed to do anything permanent to his body until he's 18, and then of course it is up to him. Not because I don't trust him or believe he might change his mind.. it's the same as a tattoo in that regard: it will affect his entire adult life, so should only be made when he is an adult.

@Reallybadidea thanks for that I’ll check them out.

@LovelaceBiggWither that sounds like a good outcome for your daughter and it is really good to hear about the dysphoria being alleviated especially without surgery which we always want to minimise for our children.

@SuziSecondLaw we have said the same to our daughter that any medical procedures she decides are appropriate for her in years to come will be supported wholeheartedly by us but that like you because of the responsibility and repercussions for her life she will have to make those decisions for herself as an adult.

The one difficultly I personally experience is that I’m personally not on board with transgender ideology at all. I was born in a very religious family and I’m not remotely religious and I treat this exactly the same way. I would never have said anything offensive about religion to the religious members of my family and in the same way I respect my daughters beliefs in regards to being trans. My absolute priority is not alienating my daughter during this pivotal phase of her development. There is a whole lot of religious language that goes on in my extended family and in the same way my daughter has a language around her beliefs that I try to navigate within reason. It is challenging though.

@Eatingchips I'm the same, I was always very against trans ideology (I still am to some extent, I truly believe 90% of the kids currently claiming to be trans or non binary will not remain so as adults). My child knows this, and we've talked about it a lot. He completely agrees and is very frustrated by how things are in general. He is on J K Rowlings side for example.. he doesn't think she's a transphobe at all, and he doesn't agree with trans women in women's sports etc. He's a smart kid and has researched gender issues from all angles, which is important.

He won't be allowed to do anything permanent to his body until he's 18, and then of course it is up to him. Not because I don't trust him or believe he might change his mind.. it's the same as a tattoo in that regard: it will affect his entire adult life, so should only be made when he is an adult

It’s nothing like a tattoo. Having surgery and then being on synthetic hormones for the rest of your life, causing sterilisation and loss of sexual function, impeding your dating life by significantly reducing your pool or potential partners, along with any physical or mental problems that may come from the surgery and loss of sensation and the opportunity for a normal life is nothing like having a slightly regrettable drawing you’re forced to look at until you cover it with something else or have it lasered off.

It’s nothing like a tattoo. Having surgery and then being on synthetic hormones for the rest of your life, causing sterilisation and loss of sexual function, impeding your dating life by significantly reducing your pool or potential partners, along with any physical or mental problems that may come from the surgery and loss of sensation and the opportunity for a normal life is nothing like having a slightly regrettable drawing you’re forced to look at until you cover it with something else or have it lasered off.

@SteveHarringtonsChestHair i actually look at it entirely the same way as @SuziSecondLaw from the point of view of at 18 I have absolutely no say over whether my child gets a tattoo or not. I equally have no say over whether they get surgery or not. It doesn’t mean I want them to get the tattoo and I certainly don’t want my child to get any form of GRS but ultimately I’m not in control of any other adult not even my children from 18.

Anyone can speak as rationally as they want around trans issues but ultimately these are emotional issues/issues based on feelings and you are almost never going to change a persons emotions by throwing facts and logic at them, that almost never works.

@SteveHarringtonsChestHair it's obviously not identical. Point is that it is an adults decision to make, like alcohol, gambling etc etc.

Avoiding any threads on mumsnet that paint my child as a monster whilst sympathising with the opposite sex who are in the same situation. There is strong feeling on mumsnet about transgender people but when it happens to you and it's your child you love them anyway. I can't imagine turning my back on my child or being dismissive of their very real to them feelings. I live all my DC and while this isn't something I would choose for any of them it did happen with one and I chose my child over everything else.

@lolil i completely agree that for our children these feelings and beliefs absolutely are real and the absolute end of for me is that my child doesn’t feel lonely, isolated or unacceptable to me. I love my kids unconditionally and no matter what my personal beliefs are, my views are not the hill I wish to die on with respect to my relationship with my daughter.

DD started indicating she might be trans a couple of years ago. We are absolutely accepting of her using another, non-gendered name with her friends. We are cool with her cutting her hair short and wearing more traditionally masculine clothes. I have absolutely refused to allow her to bind her breasts until she is 18. The last six months she appears to be more physically presenting as more feminine again so it does feel like she's exploring her identity as she grows. I appreciate my language may not be correct here and hope I am not offending anyone as this is a learning curve for me also.

Nobody said anything about encouraging anything at all.

You can't control their lives once they turn 18 and unfortunately they can do as they please, whether you approve or not.

The things you say, we hear it everywhere, all the time. But when it's your own child, it's heartbreaking to deal with, you have no idea.

I'm sure it is heartbreaking.

It's heartbreaking to me that Young people can't grow up happy with the body they have.

And think if they don't confirm to a gender there is something wrong with them. How awful.

Anyway my apologies, this is in the feminism section so I thought we'd be taking a feminist stance.

I'm really scared to join any discussion because the ideology is so entrenched. My child would be old school gay in the 80s - dressing in a butch or feminine way for example as a lesbian or a gay man (being really careful not to identify them in any way).
With the current ideology I'm scared that they may be persuaded that choices made by lesbians and gay men re: appearance in the past and now in use by them may be seen as trans/may lead them to feel this is the answer.
We did have a when will I be the conversation when they were little and addressed it then as you can do/wear anything.
I am so worried as surgery is so brutal and I feel they would end up not being either/or and having such a hard life.

"It's heartbreaking to me that Young people can't grow up happy with the body they have.

And think if they don't confirm to a gender there is something wrong with them. How awful."

I agree with these statements completely.

We have to join the discussions and otherwise there is a single option left for people.

I'm pretty sure that growing up in the 90s, I would have been put in the trans/non binary bucket for being awkward and not interested in feminine clothes or boys until I was in my late teens. Later, I remember really wanting a nose and boob job until friends and family talked me into being happy with who I was.

Now anyone with a fleeting idea of being trans seems to have it validated and celebrated despite how awful the consequences actually are. I guess there isn't the money to be made if people are happy with their bodies.

I’m not sure we are at odds at all in our views. The problem is that invalidating and alienating our children is not the way to bring them along to a healthier place. I had my daughter read what JKR wrote thinking that JKR’s eloquent words might bring her thinking along but she cried throughout reading it. She still thinks JKR is a monstrous transphobe, I totally don’t get it, I think JKR is a hero but I don’t share that opinion with my daughter.

She is just a confused child who has had a rough time of it with stuff beyond hers (and our) control who likely has at the very least traits of ASD who needs to figure herself out. While she does that she will have her parents full support. I am not in control of her future decisions but I am 100% convinced that alienating her now will give her the worst possible outcome.

He's been living as much 'like a guy' for the last seven and a half years as is possible for someone with a sizeable chest can do, at nearly 15. He knows he has the support of my side of his family. I've encouraged him to make an appointment with the GP to get on a list to talk to someone about his identity and how he feels in his body. I've said that from 18, he gets to make his choices. I've stood up for him and defended him and always will. Whatever he chooses. For him, it's been ongoing since before it was being talked about so much, publicly. I will never not love my kids. Both of them have seen what I've had to go through, and I felt it was important that nothing was hidden from them. Because I know my son will experience a lot of the same sensory issues I have, if he goes through with top surgery one day. You can prepare as much as possible but you still never really know what you're in for until you're there and experiencing it. Far from a trend, it's something I've felt for forty years and I have no doubt that my son would be the same. Just as I'm pretty sure my younger daughter won't have the same sort of feelings because she's always embraced the gender she was born with. I think some of us know better than others how our kids may or may not feel after a significant time period has passed and puberty is long gone. Puberty wasn't even on the radar when my son came out.

Following so I can post when I'm more awake!

That is a really great post @LittlestBaoBun reminding us that for some people these feelings persist always. Living with that incongruity must be exceptionally challenging. That is why people need to be supported and over time hopefully get to a place of peace. You mention sensory issues, are you autistic yourself?

Mostly I try to avoid any kind of squabble or argument directly related to trans ideology and instead work to strengthen our relationship and promote critical thinking. I took the approach of dissecting the ideology rather than a blanket criticism so I'll say stuff like "of course such and such and such" "but that doesn't mean..." "I agree with x but I have to say that sounds really sexist to me" or "To me that sounds like there's a complete lack of respect for so and so's sexual orientation, so it seems rather homophobic" or in places such as the born in the wrong body trope "I don't believe that's true" The truth is like so many she doesn't actually believe all the things she would need to believe in order to be immune from accusations of transphobia. There are already elements of the ideology she doesn't agree with.

So I tell her I love her, try to spend more time with her watching tv shows which have that I consider to have a wide range of good female role models including old school lesbian woman living happy fulfilled lives (side note raging to other people that such shows and movies are almost non-existent).

We talk about how dangerous and toxic the www can be for young women and the advantages of having a screen name and avatar that does not 'out' you as a young woman. We talk about how girls and women do not have to conform to narrow stereotypes of who we are how we feel what we like and what we want. We talk about how important it is to know and set your own boundaries, and that people exist who will try to bully and intimidate women and girls into doing things they aren't comfortable with but this is abusive and girls have to learn to recognise this kind of abuse from 'friends' and either challenge it or be prepared to walk away from the friendship.

I tell her that there's basically two categories of reasons why men and women, boys and girls are treated differently, where there is a good reason for it (a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim) and sexist bullshit and I want her to believe that I'm on her side against the sexist bullshit and that I'll always be on her side against any and all sexist bullshit, the sexist bullshit she's noticed (the stuff that made her uncomfortable in the first place) the sexist bullshit I'm aware of but she isn't yet and the sexist bullshit we've yet to encounter. I tell her I'll always be honest with her and I want her to feel that she can talk to me about stuff even if she's not sure I'll agree because even if I don't completely agree I'm still interested in her point of view.

If any of this sounds very patronising she's very little and I'm her Mum.

@howdoesatoastermaketoast

If any of this sounds very patronising she's very little and I'm her Mum.

How old was your child when they told you they were trans?