TullipR going to sue NHS over poor care pre-sex-change procedure

[ChristinaXYZ]

"Stephanie Davies-Arai, founder of Transgender Trend, a group advising parents on transgender children and young adults, said: ‘It is hoped this will force a re-think by the NHS about this kind of barbaric surgery on patients who are told by medics it will help them.

‘He has a very real case for compensation against the heath service. We believe he has suffered harm.’

His case has been taken on by lawyers in Liverpool. It centres on whether the NHS and its gender clinics adequately counselled him before the operation five years ago. The patient, in his thirties, was brought up in the North of England and has de-transitioned from being a woman to live as a man again.

The man says he is gay and his sexuality should have been discussed before the radical, irreversible gender surgery. ‘I have been castrated. That is the correct term,’ he says on his Twitter feed, which has 19,000 followers.

‘I cannot believe they [the NHS] were allowed to do this to me.

‘I was not even asked if I wanted to freeze my sperm, or have kids in the future.’ He does not want to be named because he is ashamed of how he looks. Instead, he tweets under the pseudonym TullipR.

Yesterday, he posted a picture of his huge bundle of medical notes which will be used by his lawyers to bring the case against the NHS."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10947483/Anguish-young-man-sex-organs-removed-NHS-regretted-day-SUES-NHS.html

There is already a thread on this. Maybe this one should be deleted?

I wish people gave proper titles to threads (like you have here, OP) rather than the other thread where the title means nothing.

So someone falls into the thrall of an ideology, insists on affirmation, and then sues the NHS when they get what they wanted but don't like it?

I'm afraid I'm starting to lose sympathy.

What you all said was coming
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4575439-what-you-all-said-was-coming

Thanks @serendipitea that is frustrating. I did scan the threads but missed it. Mumsnet might delete but I am not going to ask them to because as you say the title may make people read this thread and learn about the case that have not clicked on the other vague one.

Perhaps we need a thread about thread titles :-)

Many opinions on both sides, and some are saying the patient must have known what they were getting.

But, I don't think I have read about incontinence being one of the consequences of this surgery, in any of the cautionary tales I have read. if that is a rarely occurring but not disclosed risk, then it strengthens the argument for litigation, I think?

I am also curious that he decided to de-transition, I am wondering how that correlates with feelings about the success of surgery. Would he have de-transitioned if the surgery were closer to his expectations?

But, a sad story all around, and I wish him peace.

[And without wanting to derail the thread, I am often frustrated by poorly titled threads. When I moderated a list I would edit the titles to include in parenthesis the actual topic and not just leave some vague musing.]

It’s not good enough to say the patient was aware of the risks. That implies medical professionals have no ethical responsibilities at all and can do whatever a patient might consent to.

Responsible doctors do not dispense treatment or surgery because a patient asks. They engage in a detailed clinical assessment of what is appropriate. If that did not happen to this young man he is absolutely right to bring a claim.
his account is heartbreaking.

@ChagSameachDoreen · "So someone falls into the thrall of an ideology, insists on affirmation, and then sues the NHS when they get what they wanted but don't like it?
I'm afraid I'm starting to lose sympathy."

So would you lose sympathy if the NHS gave an anorexic a gastric by-pass surgery?

I'm not sure. So he was 30. He surely must have known what would happen if he asked for his cock and balls to be cut off? He wasn't a naive 16yo. He bears some responsibility for researching the op, side effects, recovery time, etc.

He said he regretted it the second he woke up - well, that's not the NHS's fault!!

The NHS can't get it right: waiting times are too long, killing trans people; OPs are done too quickly...

He surely must have been talked through the possible effects? And signed a waiver?

If not, then he's old enough to ask about these things.

Is it's that easy, why do they refuse vasectomies to men under a certain age? Refuse to sterilise women full stop. Refuse hysterectomies?

If I research really carefully and am quite sure it's what I need, can I have a boob reduction and a nose job? Can I have a hysterectomy?

Why not? Why does Tulip get full responsibility for his choices, despite a history of poor mental health and asking for something clearly 'mental', while I get to be told 'no, it's not good for you!'

Come on. Which is it?

BUT if those things weren't done, if he didn't have a MH assessment, if they didn't talk all the negatives through with him, then that is terrible.

But if gender dysphoria is not a MH problem then you can't use that to deny surgery! It's a minefield.

Do you also think the surgeon in this article should have been allowed to continue to amputate the healthy limbs of patients who requested it?

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/625680.stm

The surgeon who amputated healthy limbs from private patients suffering from a psychiatric disorder has defended his decision to carry out the procedures.

Dr Robert Smith spoke out in the debate over the ethics of the operations at Falkirk and District Royal Infirmary.

The trust which runs the hospital has confirmed that no action will be taken against Dr Smith but the chairman has described as inappropriate this type of surgery in an NHS hospital.

Why should it be OK to amputate a healthy penis on request, but not a healthy limb?

Why is the NHS carrying out these operations when they don't have enough money to treat people who actually need medical treatment?

So person insists on ridiculous unnecessary surgery then sues because they got what they wanted? FFS, these people are so fecking self obsessed, do they ever give a thought to the people suffering and waiting for actual necessary operations? Twats.

If we don’t support people who have had this done to them, it will never stop.

For every person who has this surgery, there is a surgeon who has carried it out, and a number of other people in the hospital who have assisted. Everyone who made this happen is responsible, not just the person who has the operation. Any, or all of them, could just say no to carrying out such an unnecessary and harmful operation. Why aren't they thinking of the people suffering and waiting for actual necessary operations?

Why are these medical professionals carrying out this unnecessary surgery on demand? They don't amputate healthy limbs from people who 'insist' on it. Why is this different?

I'll say it again. Regret rates for trans surgeries are less than most common surgeries - less so then breast augmentation for instance.

Yes there will always be a few who it doesn't work out for. But he was an adult and has to take responsibility for that. And we owe him the support he needs to live with his own decisions. But suing the NHS is wrong.

Should we also campaign to stop sexist breast augmentation surgery, as that has a much higher regret level then trans surgeries?

Should we also campaign to stop sexist breast augmentation surgery, as that has a much higher regret level then trans surgeries?

Does the NHS pay for these?

@MishyJDI

Not all surgeries or modifications are comparable. I regret a piercing - so what? I’m not infertile. I’m not suffering serious long-term detriments. This person is.

The NHS needs to operate according to a rigorous system of medical ethics, not ‘well you asked me to do it so fuck you’.

And yet there was no one in the NHS that said "No".

If you have an eating disorder, the NHS don't give you liposuction.

Richie is right, boys are forgotten about in all of this, I'm not sure why there is always sympathy for the girls, but none for the boys.

This could well be a male relative of yours. Any parent should be worried, and it's probably because we as a society indulge any male wanting to change sex that we are now starting to see those consequences on girls and the pressure on gender non-conformity equalling trans.

Do you know why regret is low?

Because after surgery you are no longer on a clinic's books. They don't do follow ups. This is what is coming up from the Tavistock mess. Regret is low because they don't ask.

Regret rates for trans surgeries are less than most common surgeries - less so then breast augmentation for instance.

Can you supply any data to back up this statement? Or have you just made this up?

Regret for private surgeries is one thing. I'm unhappy about some of the body modifications that are escalating these days. They aren't done on the nhs though.

I'm steaming about the difficulty accessing basic care in the NHS, essential surgery that's postponed indefinitely. NHS should first do no harm.

Has Ritchie said what their opinions were of those who either did or maybe would have expressed doubts prior to the surgery? I've seen things posted where doctors or other hcp who express doubts or concerns are then vilified or reported to risk of losing registration due to discrimination.