TullipR going to sue NHS over poor care pre-sex-change procedure

[ChristinaXYZ]

"Stephanie Davies-Arai, founder of Transgender Trend, a group advising parents on transgender children and young adults, said: ‘It is hoped this will force a re-think by the NHS about this kind of barbaric surgery on patients who are told by medics it will help them.

‘He has a very real case for compensation against the heath service. We believe he has suffered harm.’

His case has been taken on by lawyers in Liverpool. It centres on whether the NHS and its gender clinics adequately counselled him before the operation five years ago. The patient, in his thirties, was brought up in the North of England and has de-transitioned from being a woman to live as a man again.

The man says he is gay and his sexuality should have been discussed before the radical, irreversible gender surgery. ‘I have been castrated. That is the correct term,’ he says on his Twitter feed, which has 19,000 followers.

‘I cannot believe they [the NHS] were allowed to do this to me.

‘I was not even asked if I wanted to freeze my sperm, or have kids in the future.’ He does not want to be named because he is ashamed of how he looks. Instead, he tweets under the pseudonym TullipR.

Yesterday, he posted a picture of his huge bundle of medical notes which will be used by his lawyers to bring the case against the NHS."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10947483/Anguish-young-man-sex-organs-removed-NHS-regretted-day-SUES-NHS.html

Kathleen Stock has more than earned the right to say what she wants.

Yes it is elective surgery, yes he should've known the consequences, but isn't this the point of mental health? He wasn't in a state of sound mental capacity to make such decisions, and no one in the NHS wanted to investigate his mental health issues, and just went along with whatever he said.

It’s really sad. I do find it shocking that men in their 30s are denied vasectomy due to chances of regret but this sort of radical surgery is fine. You’d hope there was significant counselling before hand.

Labryneeth · Today 10:52
Ritchie didn't take long to show his true colours and tell us off for not thinking about the menz
TullipR going to sue NHS over poor care pre-sex-change procedure

re: The screen shot of his tweet saying our fury should be for boys too.

TullipR - this is to tell you, if you ever read this, my fury is for little boys and boys too.

I think little boys are especially vulnerable to adults around them pouncing to fix them at any hint of their seeming different from male stereotypes.

We are now very keen to see your evidence on this mishy.

If you cannot provide any evidence to support this, please stop posting misinformation on the internet.

Seriously, making this statement is very harmful if you cannot support it with evidence.

Please provide statistics for both gender surgery AND other surgery regret.

And what NHS breast augmentations? Reconstructive surgeries? Or is NHS doing breast augmentations for all?

Looking forward to your evidence.

I'm sorry, what?

Don’t worry screechingechochamber, I guess they are just another who is infuriated that people choose to spend their money how they wish rather than how S950 and other activists desire.

I totally subscribe by personal responsibility, but the NHS is known to be in thrall to this ideology too, which makes it less black and white.

Reading Helen Joyce's Trans book is very interesting, it seems many years ago getting reassignment surgery - her example was in the US in the 1960s, was way harder than it is now.

I wish Tullip well and I'm glad he's doing what he's doing.

I'm glad there's debate and disagreement. No debate isn't acceptable.

I think he is right to sue the NHS/doctors.

it is very clear that a lot if trans people are suffering from real and deep MH issues (whether they exist on their own or because they living in the wrong gender is a different discussion).
Not having extensive counselling about their reasons before agreeing is crazy.
Not having an in-depth discussion in what it means to have that type of surgery is not OK. That’s an issue with consent (and doctors in general are not good at consent. They don’t always —never— go into all the things that could go wrong as well as the real risks).
Im very surprised that a disussion about sperm didn’t happen. I would. Have thought this would have been part of ANY discussion before surgery that involves removing sexual organs.

I think it was probably because I used a word beginning with 'd' to describe someone who believes that they have been born in the wrong body. I suspect that the 'd' word is forbidden in this particular context as it implies that someone who thinks they are born in the wrong body is mentally ill.

@S950 Here to complain about how women choose to spend their money I see?

Please don't bother

The fact it has (or hasn’t) a low regret rate doesn’t matter. You dint do a surgery to someone Wo their full consent. If that no one had explained to him that a possibility after his surgery is incontinence, it’s an issue. However small the rate of ‘regret’ or the risk of incontinence is.

To take your comparaison about breast augmentation increase, for me it’s the same that a surgeon not mentioning there is a risk of nerve damage during the breast reduction and therefore loss of sensation around the breast nipple area. The risk might be small but for me, this is what makes that surgery a big NO-NO.
You can’t decide for people what is or isn’t a risk they are happy taking (and then not talk about it) ‘because most people don’t regret it’ or ‘they are adults, it’s their decision/responsibility’

Well you shouldn't be so hasty as the medical profession should know better than to carry out such barbaric treatments to solve mental health issues. They should ask themselves, if this were my son/daughter would I be happy with this?

Yes, but maybe they shouldn't have been given what they wanted?

We shouldn't be chopping off body parts (nor cosmetically amending them) with taxpayers money....

Yes i believe this is the root of it all.

If you believe that it’s not a MH issue and they are born in the wrong body, then why questioning the reasons of them wanting to have the surgery? Why insist about the risk associated with it, surely, it will be nothing compare to the benefit of being a woman?

I think the reason why many Transpeople don’t have the surgery is because it’s hard. It’s a harsh surgery, it has a lot of risk associated with it. They are losing the ability to orgasm etc etc. Hence the feminine penis and the masculine vagina. And from that pov alone, risks and reasons for the surgery should have been reviewed in depth.

I should say "chopping off fully functioning body parts"

Yep, this was inevitable. Thailand stopped doing sex changes on young boys, not because they suddenly discovered ethics, but because when those boys grew up many of them sued the doctors. As I said on Mumsnet several years ago, many of these ‘trans’ children will sue the NHS when they’re adults.

It would be lovely if we lived in a world where doctors stuck to ‘do no harm’ and refused to carry out unnecessary harmful procedures like this. (Especially taxpayer funded doctors.) But it seems we don’t live in that world, so instead these horrible taxpayer-funded operations will
now lead to a load of litigation and then huge amounts of compensation paid for… By the taxpayer.

I wonder at what point Labour will stop being a mouthpiece for Stonewall on all of this and start performing the function of an opposition party.

No one knows the rate of detransitioning, any more than no one knows how many female people have lost access to facilities due to TQ+ politics.

Partly because these are vulnerable people who disappear quietly out of sight and are only cared about by those with a sense of responsibility and care for them, (which does not include currently any fashionable or powerful bodies) and partly because there has been intentional determination and steering on the part of the TQ+ political lobby to discredit them, ignore them, derogate them and silence them as much as possible, because if the general public notice them the TQ+ political agenda would start to hit some major road bumps.

The Reddit de transitioning group however is not a small one. And the Cass report has led to the government taking urgent action trying to work out how many people have been affected and what has happened to them.

SRS is the only form of surgery where those seeking for it are backed by a political lobby and a social media army who are actively steering them and their beliefs and perceptions towards a very specific end, which is to have the treatment, the medications, the surgery, not to question, that it is the answer to everything, and those who step out of this agenda or afterwards regret it are treated extremely badly by those who steered them to it.

The medics have also been heavily steered and leaned upon and framed into a specific political agenda by said lobby.

Life changing surgery under this situation, with this lack of ethics and balance, with this political machine currently causing questionable silencing and manipulating of usual medical beliefs and ethics - which has led to the closing of the Tavistock - is absolutely questionable and very likely Tullip has a case here.

The identified frequent concurrent needs of those young people suffering dysphoria and seeking this treatment and the refusal to permit them any other avenues of exploration and support, and the pathway they are told is the magic wand answer being a majorly life changing one with frequent awful side effects and outcomes, is another reason Tullip has a case.

Many of these young people are going to need massive compensation not least because the damage caused by this treatment will impact on their adult life and ability to earn a living and care for themselves. Hopefully when more of them come forward and it gets expensive to pay out for the mess left behind, the NHS and government will start to think a lot harder about the gatekeeping and checks necessary for surgery of this risk and impact.

I'd agree and expand to 'chopping off functioning healthy body parts'.

Compare and contrast treatments as advocated by WPATH with Body Integrity Identity Disorder (BIID) pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19132621/

I know someone who was a late transitioner (mtf). Didn't want to wait on the NHS list, so went to the Far East and paid for bottom surgery. Seems over there they are happy to take the money and do whatever is asked for. Have since found out that this person has a lot of historic issues that have never been resolved, ie sexually abused as a teenager, very unhappy home life as a child plus other traumas. Probably if this had been discussed and relevant counselling / therapy undertaken then maybe they would not have undertaken such drastic surgery. They still have the same issues and now have other medical problems due to the surgery.

If anorexics were offered bariatric surgery on the NHS as a way to achieve the body they wanted, I wonder how many would go on to regret it?

Mum was denied having her tubes tied back in the 60s. She has very high risk pregnancies and was told that if she got pregnant again she would be at risk if bleeding to death and ended up in hospital for weeks. Of course she did get pregnant and had the baby - and the surgeon did the op without consulting her or dad anyway.

So has Mishy come back with any evidence at all to support their post?

anything Mishy?

Or will this be another of your abandoned threads?