TullipR going to sue NHS over poor care pre-sex-change procedure

[ChristinaXYZ]

"Stephanie Davies-Arai, founder of Transgender Trend, a group advising parents on transgender children and young adults, said: ‘It is hoped this will force a re-think by the NHS about this kind of barbaric surgery on patients who are told by medics it will help them.

‘He has a very real case for compensation against the heath service. We believe he has suffered harm.’

His case has been taken on by lawyers in Liverpool. It centres on whether the NHS and its gender clinics adequately counselled him before the operation five years ago. The patient, in his thirties, was brought up in the North of England and has de-transitioned from being a woman to live as a man again.

The man says he is gay and his sexuality should have been discussed before the radical, irreversible gender surgery. ‘I have been castrated. That is the correct term,’ he says on his Twitter feed, which has 19,000 followers.

‘I cannot believe they [the NHS] were allowed to do this to me.

‘I was not even asked if I wanted to freeze my sperm, or have kids in the future.’ He does not want to be named because he is ashamed of how he looks. Instead, he tweets under the pseudonym TullipR.

Yesterday, he posted a picture of his huge bundle of medical notes which will be used by his lawyers to bring the case against the NHS."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10947483/Anguish-young-man-sex-organs-removed-NHS-regretted-day-SUES-NHS.html

I have the same levels of sympathy for both Keira and TulipR/Ritchie. It is not contained within a limited pot.

Lots of young people are being let down and they need to be separated from the other group of individuals. The reasons for presenting in the first place may be different but both boys and girls (and by extension young men and women) deserve the same levels of care, albeit different approaches.

I got a deletion recently for writing the dictionary definition of that particular word.

As for Richie, and male detransitioners generally I have a lot of empathy for them. I don't feel salty because he wants our support. I do support him. I think what's been done to him is criminal. That these surgeries are legal is insane, and as for them being done on the NHS, don't even get me started...

All that said, I'm a feminist and as such my focus is the impact of this ideology on women and girls. Happily, a by-product of the work feminists are doing to roll back this madness is that men and boys will also benefit.

We focus on the girls here because it's the feminism board.
You are more than welcome to start your own thread elsewhere about boys.

Er, isn't this thread about a male detransitioner though?

LK1972 · Today 16:31

“DuchessofAnkh77 · Today 16:24
I should say "chopping off fully functioning body parts"

I'd agree and expand to 'chopping off functioning healthy body parts'.

Compare and contrast treatments as advocated by WPATH with Body Integrity Identity Disorder (BIID) pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19132621/

I have just read that article LK1992 it is fascinating and there is indeed a contrast in the approach to treatment.

JaquelinePot Today 16:44
As for Richie, and male detransitioners generally I have a lot of empathy for them. I don't feel salty because he wants our support. I do support him. I think what's been done to him is criminal. That these surgeries are legal is insane, and as for them being done on the NHS, don't even get me started...

All that said, I'm a feminist and as such my focus is the impact of this ideology on women and girls. Happily, a by-product of the work feminists are doing to roll back this madness is that men and boys will also benefit.

I feel, as a female, very concerned by adults grooming children, including toddler boys, into thinking they are in the wrong body. I do think this happens especially in America.
I also know of a very young boy in the U.K who had, I was told by his very pleasant, intelligent, parents, transitioned and is now being affirmed by their primary school.

Ariella Scarcella posted and interview with Richie on her YouTube channel.

I know a little about the case but was surprised to find that his HCP's wouldn't provide treatment for his OCD until after transition and he reports that, among the male transitioners he knows, loss of sensation is the most common side effect of penial inversion.

I'm seeing an increasing number of transitioners reaching a point of regret at 7 - 10 years post op and then detransitioning. So much more research is needed to determine if lifelong hormones and radical surgery are ever the best treatment for gender dysphoria.

Any evidence @MishyJDI . Have you had time to pull those figures together?

Or seriously, is this yet another unevidenced statement that is based on wishful thinking or propaganda trying to minimise the detransitioner and poor transitioner outcomes of their surgeries.

Please otherwise you are now spreading harmful misinformation which can lead people to make decisions that leads to severely poor outcomes. You must realise this by now? You have been on many threads where this has been discussed.

If you are using this as a 'gotcha', please stop.

There is enough personally published trans people and detrans people raising the alarm that they are not being told enough about their surgeries and are horrified by the lasting and sometime life limiting and even life shortening outcomes.

Thanks FOJN for posting this.

Maybe @MishyJDI and others can read through some of the comments under the video and see that even amongst the transitioned males there is a) horror that so little is done to support this decision before surgery, and b) how many have lasting issues due to their medical treatments.

And still no evidence to back this claim up

Regret rates for trans surgeries are less than most common surgeries - less so then breast augmentation for instance.

Just denial that as many people have 'regret' as there obviously is now published evidence for.

Still, I will wait for that evidence. Maybe, just maybe, this poster will prove me wrong and come up with something that is convincing and relevant.

FOJN · Today 13:04
Ariella Scarcella posted and interview with Richie on her YouTube channel.

Thank you for that. The comments are particularly interesting, many of them from people with gender dysphoria but who understand the dangers of affirmation and surgery, and often understand the underlying mental health difficulties they have had to deal with. Some people who had surgery in the 1990s when mire psychological care was taken have also responded. I really recommend people read them as they are from different perspectives than those typical of TRAs.

There is enough personally published trans people and detrans people raising the alarm that they are not being told enough about their surgeries and are horrified by the lasting and sometime life limiting and even life shortening outcomes.

I suspect the thoughtlessness of spreading that regret rate is less so then breast augmentation for instance probably will not occur to some posters because they seem to spend a lot of time trying to post 'gotchas' on MN FWR.

However, there really is enough anecdotal evidence and clinician testimony that is showing that these surgeries are rarely pain or significant problem free.

Surely it is important that everyone works towards significantly higher levels of care and extensive support? This is not the time to be pithily minimising and dismissing the voices raising the alarm.

Why would anyone want to continue to do that?

Who does it benefit to have medical treatment results being suppressed from the public view?

Why do posters think they are helping trans people to dismiss the need for better health care?

Surely it is important that everyone works towards significantly higher levels of care and extensive support? This is not the time to be pithily minimising and dismissing the voices raising the alarm.

Why would anyone want to continue to do that?

Who does it benefit to have medical treatment results being suppressed from the public view?

Why do posters think they are helping trans people to dismiss the need for better health care?

I think it is because the ‘better health care’ would be based on exploring all the reasons a person is experiencing gender dysphoria. This means ignoring the central TRA tenet that people are just born ‘trans’, and that being trans is not, therefore, a psychological or neurological health issue that needs help.

Sorry, that was in response to
Helleofabore · Today 15:25

That was my very first thought when I read the op.

Yes. Absolutely

Probably the main reason so far that the focus has been on female de-transitioners is that there appear to be far more of them - ie far more young women are transitioning, and therefore far more are de-transitioning. About 75% of referrals to GIDS are female.

Obviously we should support male de-transitioners as well. But they need to come forward.

An individual falling into the thrall of an ideology happens all the time. But what about the NHS? A large organisation like that really shouldn't fall for an ideology. How could this happen? How is it that nobody managed to stop this c**t from taking over the NHS?

I too have no sympathy for anyone in the NHS who allowed this to happen. Everyone who has played a part in this should be held to account.

Johnnysgirl· Today 15:36

“ChagSameachDoreen · 24/06/2022 11:08
So someone falls into the thrall of an ideology, insists on affirmation, and then sues the NHS when they get what they wanted but don't like it?”

“I'm afraid I'm starting to lose sympathy.”

That was my very first thought when I read the op.

I don’t know if you’ve had a chance yet to look at the video interview with Tullip which FOJN linked this afternoon? To me it made it clear that It is not as straightforwardly Tullip’s fault in the way it might seem. Reading the comments with other’s experiences makes this even clearer.

I do agree with what OldCrone said.

Yes, the issue here is that Tullip has been given medical treatment based not on evidence, but on ideology. He has been irreversibly damaged by inadequate care from the NHS, and is right to sue.

Sinead Watson really does make it clear.

twitter.com/imwatson91/status/1556633208288059392?s=21&t=50OpIpUhtBMMsthgxdKWLw

I was not informed about atrophy by my clinic. I took testosterone for almost 5 years – not once did my clinic warn me about atrophy.

I was not informed about bladder issues. Now I live with bladder issues because of my transition – my clinic never once warned me.

I understand if you're a trans activist or "ally" and you really want transition to appear to be this beautiful thing – but it's not.

My chest is a scarred mess with no sensation. I piss myself sometimes. My nether regions are freakish. My depression has utterly spiralled.

I can well believe that Richie was not informed of the risks. I can fully believe that Richie was cocooned from the realities of the operations because detransitioners often say the truth is not discussed openly in the community. Under fear of ostracision and abuse for speaking up.

I am still horrified that his clinic told him that they would drop his mental health support if he didn’t transition because … whatever reason. This is supposed to be high level service, but is just another person harmed by affirming only. Of course his mental health care should have been continued.

I suspect Ritchie is the tip of the iceberg. And the NHS is solely responsible for their neglect in patient care, patient follow up and review and for reviewing extensively to ensure they were doing the right thing.

The thing is, most surgery carried out in the UK and in particular, on the NHS, is not optional. People don't regret having their appendix out or wisdom teeth removed or hips replaced or cancerous tumours removed. These are things that must be done, and while there may be an aspect of coming to terms with the result (eg in a mastectomy), the actual need for the operation is never in question. This is because there was a clear medical need. Regret for boob jobs is a completely different thing because that's cosmetic surgery which is not performed on the NHS and is not medically necessary.

There are cases where people were badly advised about the necessity for surgery, which this might fall into, or where potential after-effects weren't made clear or not properly understood by the medical professionals (like the vaginal mesh surgeries). If it turns out over time that a type of treatment is unsafe and/or causes debilitating issues, then it is usually withdrawn. I can't request thalidomide for morning sickness or a lobotomy or many other drugs or procedures that are now known to be unsafe. This may eventually be the case for many types of trans surgeries.

The only way this is going to change is to hit them in the pocket. I agree with suing the NHS. What's happening is diabolical.

Oh thanks for the reminder… crickets on the evidence for that over confident assertion from Mishy then.

(surprised face)

This is the outcome when the NHS works to an affirmation model.

If a patient was anorexic, we would be horrified if the NHS performed a gastric bypass, and certainly wouldn't victim blame after the fact.

I don't see the difference.

And given that "transgender conversion therapy" includes examining the reasons that a physically healthy person wants to surgically remove healthy body parts, & there is a very vocal push to ban this, these cases will only increase.