What you all said was coming

[Pippinbird]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10947483/Anguish-young-man-sex-organs-removed-NHS-regretted-day-SUES-NHS

But why is the full force of blame laid at the door of the NHS? This was a journey he made, with decisions along the way influenced mostly by a website that told him to transition quickly, and a childhood marked by fear of what his anti-gay parents would say if they found out. The NHS were at the end of this journey, performed the operation he gave his consent for and now he's angry and upset, and claims they've ruined his life. What about the bigoted parents, the fanatic website that swayed him completely?

I have sympathy for him in bucket-loads but I disagree with the allocation of blame. The NHS are always whipping-dogs for anything that goes wrong - there's always a backstory to these cases that sees people regretting lying on operating table. And in this case, the blame lies elsewhere, or should do.

I absolutely agree. Surely there are much more important things the NHS should be spending its limited resources on?

I think this is the only thing which will stop the NHS pushing and enabling this ideology so I am fully behind this challenge. As pp said, if this isn't a (mental) health condition there is no basis to treat it under the NHS. They can't have it all ways. Counselling only.

I don't think the NHS should be carrying out these surgeries at all. My disabled child has been waiting for surgery for three years and now can't walk properly due to the delay. I know women with chronic agonising pain from overly large breasts but they can't get surgery on the NHS. Why is the NHS mutilating healthy bodies when it can't even provide a basic essential service?

And in this case, the blame lies elsewhere, or should do.

Perhaps the NHS should have been less gung-ho for gender identity ideology, without the evidence case that other treatment requires.

That's awful Penguin, so sorry for you and your child

But the NHS should know their limitations and just refer people to private clinicians.

Unfortunately the private clinicians doing this in the UK are just as likely to botch things up.

I don't know the background to this protest outside St Peter's Andrology centre in London but it looks like someone was done serious harm.
Which may or may not be connected to St Peter's losing the NHS contract.

Hopefully it won't be the same surgeons operating in the new NHS centre being opened at Chelsea and Westminster hospital.

If it is shown that these surgeries are harmful, and they are stopped that's another hit against the gender religion.

Good! The problem is if people aren't allowed the surgery then you get the TRAs screaming about being forced to live in the wrong body. If anyone dare suggest that someone may be pursuing this course of action due to mental ill health, then the TRAs start screaming about transphobia

The sooner people stop paying attention to the screaming from the TRAs the better

'Do No Harm' - first tenant of medicine I thought. Utter failure to recognise mental health issues. I blame Stonewall.

The damage is massive, and it's only going to get worse unless Labour and Lib Dems stop bowing down to Stonewalls agenda. Vulnerable people need protecting.

The sooner people stop paying attention to the screaming from the TRAs the better

This is the key to absolutely everything. Let them tantrum. Ignore and move on. But organisations are so weak.

Unfortunately the private clinicians doing this in the UK are just as likely to botch things up

I'm sure, but ultimately they should also be liable in these cases. Everyone involved in harming people should.

More about the Chelsea and Westminster clinic.

www.gbnews.uk/news/nhs-creates-new-service-offering-female-to-male-transgender-surgery-for-free/302073

I have some healthcare experience with transpeople who wanted "just one more" procedure to be perfect.

Ten years ago, if someone suggested they would commit suicide if they didn't get the bigger boobs/smaller nose they passionately believed would make them the person they wanted to be and bring them total happiness they would have been refused surgery and advised to seek psychological support. Although I'm no longer involved in such decisions I suspect there would be less push back now.

Someone did and FOI about this but NHS England deflected.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/requestregardinggtheestablishmm2

You can't do an FOI to the private hospitals so it is much harder to obtain information and monitor performance.

I can only give you my (now outdated) information @DeaconBoo.

My son disclosed to me in 2016 that he thought he was trans (the word he actually used was transvestite). Our first port of call was CAHMS, who referred him to Talking Change, who then advised him to go to the GP for a referral to GIDS.

My son had his first appointment at the Tavistock at the beginning of 2019 (which surprised me when I just went back through my calendar to check, I thought he’d had longer with them than a year).

At the appointments he had 2 therapists and the appointments lasted for one hour every 6 weeks or so. Again I have just checked my calendar and he had 7 in all. For the first 5 he had the same 2 therapists, a man and a woman. The male therapist was himself gay, and asked my son (who thought he was gay at the time) to do things like attend a Pride March or just go to Camden and immerse himself in a bit of gay culture. In short he was trying to get my son to accept being gay and not be ashamed of it. I remember how happy the therapist seemed for my son when he (my son) went to an appointment and told him he’d got a boyfriend! The therapist was honestly a godsend and I would shout his name from the rooftops if I didn’t think he would be targeted by TRA’s.

For the last 2 appointments we had the same male therapist but the female therapist had gone on maternity leave so we got a different female therapist and she scared the shit out of me. She was extremely all-in on gender ideology and I thank my lucky stars that my son only saw her twice. I am also glad that the male therapist was there for all my son’s appointments, as he left very shortly after my son was discharged.

At his last appointment my son was told that he would now be referred to the adult GIDS as he had reached the age of 18. We were told that he would be pretty much started straight away on cross sex hormones and be referred for things like feminine vocalisation training. He was also told that he would skip to the front of the queue as he had been referred from the adolescent service rather than going in as a new patient as an adult.

Then lockdown happened and everything stopped. My son got out into the real world and by maybe October/November of that year realised he was not trans. And recently he’s decided he’s bisexual, not gay after all. In short he is living his life and learning things about himself, as all young people should be allowed to do without risking life changing treatments.

Sorry, that was a bit of an essay, but I hope it helped. I’m not the best at writing long bits of information!

The thing is with this though, it starts with someone in severe mental distress, who is not very well. Then it includes a fuckton of people online raving about this is the answer, everything will be better if you do this, anyone telling you about consequences or that you should stop and think are prejudiced bigots who hate you, the nasty stuff on the leaflets will never happen and anyway if they do you'll feel so much better and won't care, and selling a whole lot of love, support and affirmation if you do anything towards transition. And then it includes a lot of medics who are politically in hock to these online lobbies and their agenda, who are quite excited about experimenting and trying new things out, and talk about the wonderful outcomes. You can see the degree of all this easily online any time you look for it.

It's a recipe for utter disaster for vulnerable people. It's like promising a slimming world solution to a desperately ill anorexic person who believes they are elephantine and that everyone saying they must eat is stupid and hates them.

It is going to have to be faced that very unwell people are not in a place to be able to make these kind of decisions without a great deal of support first, which is going to include uncomfortable questions (at this point the lobby is screaming burn the witch) and also in training the NHS and every other body how to cope with and manage the behaviour of a political lobby which has many not very well or unbalanced people in its ranks, who have very few boundaries and unleash hell to try and pressure and punish you when you displease them.

Because the NHS offer a service and they are not performing due-diligence on who is receiving the treatment. It is a failing of their service.

Absolving the NHS of any responsibility means that this will carry on.

Too many whistleblowers have raised concerns, not much is being done. Legal action makes it public and then some real pressure can be applied.

Interesting to note the publications that are not reporting on the story though.

Also notice the high degree of encouragement to just cut out anyone in your life who does anything but enthusiastically affirm. Anyone at all who questions, who points out the negatives, who has doubts they try to share with you, who encourages you to stop and think - they're haters! Abandon them! Cut them out of your life! You don't need your family, all you need is your online cheerleaders.

Hence so many terrified parents agreeing to all this, because they don't dare do otherwise. Don't take my word for it, go and look.

That does sound pretty bad .
I'd have thought you would have had a case there, but I'm no lawyer.

Sorry you had to suffer that.

Seems a strange thing for them to have done.
But as you say, in extremis, giving birth, we tend to be a bit vulnerable.

Ive no sympathy whatsoever for the NHS, you reap what you sow

the only issue is that, thanks to the gross stupidity of those at the top of the NHS vulnerable and ill people will suffer as public money is lost through court cases

Yes exactly. He's got more of a case from that side I think. Why on earth would they do a surgery though where they expect that to happen? It's barbaric. We may as well go back to lobotomies if we are still doing crap like this to people regularly expecting it to happen. We haven't advanced at all in that case.

I thought so as I wasn’t counselled in any way or given literature or choices and not told the method (I didn’t know if it was clips or cutting . I had to go to an appt 18 months later to be told they were cut, tied and cauterised)

I say - "We cannot consent to this". Adult or child. Anyone who wants it, almost by definition shouldn't have it. And the NHS should not offer it.

This is the hard line I have arrived at, particularly after learning more about the kinds of doctors who developed these ideas. Doctors who wanted to play God and all else was secondary.

I despair at the cool reaction Keira Bell and Tullip have had, portrayed as spoilt brats wanting to bring down the NHS for personal gain. They are heroes, wanting to stop others suffering as they have.

This is why the NHS should stop doing cosmetic surgery like this. If you want it that badly save up and have it done privately. He/she/whatever must've cost the NHS tens of thousands for all the gender stuff they've had, and now it's going to cost the public health service even more by being sued/legal fees to defend themselves.