J Lo’s daughter

[Dinosaurhearmeroar]

www.elle.com/culture/celebrities/a40340238/jennifer-lopez-emme-sing-duet-they-them-pronouns/

not sure if my you’ve seen this yet - at first I thought it was being misreported because she was introduced as a special guest so I thought the use of “they” was deliberately ambiguous. Got it wrong!

lots of plaudits for j lo today for supporting her daughter. I feel torn about it - I highly doubt j Lo has any clue about any of the topics on this thread etc so is just being a supportive parent, arguably.

I suppose this is all part of a bigger question I have about using pronouns really. I’ve looked at filia’s guidance and legal feminist about this and totally agree with it, but I know there are lots of gender critical feminists who will use someone’s preferred pronouns out of politeness etc.

bit of a ramble - but would love to know where people stand on this issue and if you have refused to use someone’s pronouns when asked how they responded.

x

- I highly doubt j Lo has any clue about any of the topics on this thread etc so is just being a supportive parent, arguably.
Bit of a big assumption.

would love to know where people stand on this issue and if you have refused to use someone’s pronouns when asked how they responded.
I'd use them as I'm not a dick so they haven't needed to respond.

I see it as someone telling you their name is say Sarah and you be like "no, I'm not calling you that, I' m going to call you Julie instead.
Then keep calling them it even though they have told you it's not.
You'd find them rude and a bit weird, would you not?

I don’t regard them as ‘their’ pronouns. They’re words I use, or don’t use, depending on how kind I want to be. Usually I avoid them, so if I know someone wants me to use pronouns that don’t match their sex I try to use their name instead.

I would never call somebody 'it', that is definitely rude!

Imagining J Lo on MN, . Shout out if you're here, J Lo!

J Lo music is not to my taste so I didn't listen but the stills look very sweet.

I think pronouns are self indulgent tosh tbh. Would use them to be polite or from fear of consequences.

I don’t use pronouns to describe people I’m conversing with, it’s extremely rude. If I did use a pronoun of someone who wasn’t present it would be most like be appropriate to their sex, but if I felt they disliked their sex being highlighted I’d just use their name. Is this really so hard?

I would never call somebody 'it', that is definitely rude!
Just for clarification in case you've read my comment wrong, neither would I .
My use of it in that comment was referring to the name.
If you were just saying that as a way to ignore my actual comment what I actually said about names, which you probably did as you think pronouns are "self indulgent tosh", then crack on.

but if I felt they disliked their sex being highlighted I’d just use their name. Is this really so hard? confused
How does that work, though? Like you just say their name over and over?
"Sarah asked if Sarah could delegate some of Sarah's work as Sarah won't have time to do it all Sarah's self today?"
It'd be harder to wrap your head around that load of twaddle and contortions than just say her bloody pronouns in the first place 😁
Plus you'd come across as a bit odd.

I just see a mum supporting their child.

Great. That's what parents should do.

Obviously not. That would be as rude as using the wrong pronoun by drawing attention to it. You'd just say something like 'Sarah needs to delegate some of this work in order to get it all done today' rather than the obviously weird phrasing you know someone wouldn't use in practice. I agree I wouldn't deliberately or pointedly use the wrong name or chosen pronoun for someone but I also want agency over my own language. This is a respectful compromise.

For all the talk about pronouns and the countless people at my work who have put pronouns on email signatures, I have yet to meet anyone in a professional context who has requested a pronoun that is not aligned to their sex. So I haven't really tested myself, but as others have said, I don't tend to use a pronoun for someone when they are in the room; I refer to them by name. If I'm talking about someone to others I do struggle with using new pronouns. We had someone at work who transitioned to female and it felt very off to use "her" so I found myself using all sorts of grammatical tautology to avoid saying a sentence requiring a pronoun. I wouldn't deliberately use the wrong pronoun because a) seems a bit rude and b) I'd get into trouble for sure.

In a personal setting, I have a couple of friends with kids who use different pronouns. I take the lead from the parents (and in both cases the parents keep getting it wrong anyway).

I think I get where the OP is coming from. By conforming to the new pronoun conventions it gives legitimacy to the "gender woo woo" (came across that term on MN and love it). If all non-believers refused to play along, wouldn't we all be in a better place?

There is a child at my kids' school who uses the pronoun 'it'

If all non-believers refused to play along, wouldn't we all be in a better place?

Not really as we'd be in a much more intolerant society and we've got enough of one of those already.

"I'd use them as I'm not a dick so they haven't needed to respond"

Well that kind of thing is one of my reasons I will never use pronouns. It's pretty common for those demanding respect and special words to lack any respect for others. It's self defeating in the long run.

You know you can even buy a T-shirt on Amazon. "Use my pronouns or yours will be 'were/was'"

I'm supposed to be scared I guess, but I have a quite different reaction.

@Bitebite exactly that!

to give a little context I’m a teacher and dealing with a lot of pronoun changes and as I think women are women and do not ascribe to any gender ideology I find it a very tricky area to navigate both ethically and morally.

my school is all girls and it has been alarming to see the rapid rise in so called “trans” students.

I'd rather be a dick than a dick panderer.

Saw this. They. But no one knows any more than that, trans hasn't been suggested.

I’ll take honesty and reality over polite fantasy any day.

I'm an atheist with regard to all woo.

If all non-believers refused to play along with religion we could have skipped the holy wars, inquisition, witch burning, gay hating. mess that it created.

My younger sister has come out as a transman. I don't have contact with them anyway, but when I've been discussing them with other family members, I've just used their new masculine name or "they/them/their" as "he" doesn't come naturally, but I've always used "they".

I’m not referring to a man as she or her. I might have done a few years ago to “be kind” but the TRA burned that bridge down so nope

men however they present are not women

as for J Lo none of us know her so I can’t ascribe motivation

They = non binary and non binary = trans under the generally understood trans umbrella (plus Stonewall's umbrella).

And the kid had a rainbow on the mic - which can't be a coincidence.

The sad thing is gender identity is so irrelevant in so many ways. Here's a kid with - presumably - an impressive voice. Nobody talks about the voice quality, just the pronouns. If the world made more sense, the discussion would be about children's achievements, not their temporarily self-assigned labels.

However, if pronouns and gender identity are to be discussed then it may be an idea to think why a female adolescent of a heavily sexualised mother, who is being lead (willingly or not, who knows) into the same industry that so sexualised her mother, decides to identify as "not a woman".

I'd rather be a dick than a dick panderer.
That got a genuine lol 🤣
Using pronouns and accepting trans peoples identities doesn't automatically make you a dick panderer 😂
You do you though lol, you be a dick and I'm fine with you thinking I'm a "dick panderer" 😁

I think people choosing their own pronouns is annoying and silly because i dont really believe in innate gender.
However my dd prefers they them pronouns and weve had loads of discussions on it, and both understand each others POV and I do try and remember to use they/them because it makes them happy and feel listened to.
Its actually since weve all been trying to use them more that weve been able to open up the discussion better and put boundaries in place about it.
Its not fair to assume that JLO is all for it and encouraging it or has any strong feelings one way or the other.
It would be very hard to be in the public eye and probably worse for her career to be openly GC whether she is or not, let alone her relationship with her kid, which is surely the most important thing?

Supporting an ideology that excludes many women and girls from their own single sex spaces for the sake oft a feeling is a man's head makes one a dick panderer.

@GoodJanetBadJanet Out of curiosity, what is your position on 'it' pronouns? Like you, I prefer to use a person's chosen pronouns (not always popular on FWR), but I have known people who actively want 'it' to be used. Like most gay people (and I'm sure, many straight ones), I really struggle with that as it feels inherently insulting.

*it may be an idea to think why a female adolescent of a heavily sexualised mother, who is being lead (willingly or not, who knows) into the same industry that so sexualised her mother, decides to identify as "not a woman".
Oh wow.
You think someone decides to suddenly become trans because their mother is "heavily sexualised?!
Sounds a bit armchair Freud like.
J Lo is being herself.
Her child is their own person as well.
Very 🙄 to say that her child wants to opt out of being a woman because of her mum's look and style.
Why would that make you want to opt out of womanhood anyway? Is being "highly sexualised" something to stay away from, something to be ashamed of, something you'd want no part of?