J Lo’s daughter

[Dinosaurhearmeroar]

www.elle.com/culture/celebrities/a40340238/jennifer-lopez-emme-sing-duet-they-them-pronouns/

not sure if my you’ve seen this yet - at first I thought it was being misreported because she was introduced as a special guest so I thought the use of “they” was deliberately ambiguous. Got it wrong!

lots of plaudits for j lo today for supporting her daughter. I feel torn about it - I highly doubt j Lo has any clue about any of the topics on this thread etc so is just being a supportive parent, arguably.

I suppose this is all part of a bigger question I have about using pronouns really. I’ve looked at filia’s guidance and legal feminist about this and totally agree with it, but I know there are lots of gender critical feminists who will use someone’s preferred pronouns out of politeness etc.

bit of a ramble - but would love to know where people stand on this issue and if you have refused to use someone’s pronouns when asked how they responded.

x

Absolutely not! Not at all, and not ever. I didn't insuate that at all.

Just like someone with tourettes isn't cruel for shouting obscenities at people. They can't help it.
I'm talking to people who know and understand exactly what they're doing, and choose to do it anyway.

Sorry to high jack the thread. I am genuinely interested in different views on this.

For transparency.. I was vehemently against transgender people even existing at one point...
Until my own child came out as trans 🤦🏻‍♀️. But talking to him and realising how level headed he is about it, I've come around, a bit, slightly 😆 I still disagree with a lot of it, but so does he. And he's very happy to debate various things with me in a calm way without spouting nonsense etc. It's just changed my views. Which can't be a bad thing.

If all non-believers refused to play along with religion we could have skipped the holy wars, inquisition, witch burning, gay hating. mess that it created.
I believe in god but hate what religion has caused people to do but have to listen to people ridicule my beliefs and act like I’m nuts. I’d never have put religion and this argument together but in context of someone using the word fantasy about people’s beliefs I really feel for people who believe something and have it hammered down and in their face

Not scared. Just aware.

Can you explain that further? I have never met anyone who was "against trans people existing" before. Why were you against that?

If calling someone Mr banana face implied you thought it was a good thing you might not.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10935873/Elon-Musks-transgender-child-18-files-court-docs-change-distance-him.html

Elon Musks son has come out as a transgender female but interesting that on the documents where they are changing the name legally, they have stated the reason as for their name change as :

'I no longer live with or wish to be related to my biological father in any way, shape or form'

So opting out of being male and opting out of of being Elon Musks offspring. Neither which they can actually do.

A commenter on the article has said something interesting. That this is the new ‘running away and joining the circus’

Its maybe a way of escaping a world that you don’t feel comfortable in and creating one in which you do.
JLOs daughter (also her niece and potentially step daughter) adopting a ‘they’ identity, possibly to escape a sexualised world that they don’t want to be part of.
Elon’s son, because he is trying to remove all parts of his identity to break free from his father.

They live in LA

they are a few years ahead of this being such a discussion point we shall follow soon

I’m sure some will revert back to he/she once they have a better understanding and more confidence in themselves

I can’t see why it’s such an issue many young people go through a period of time when they are confused about their identity why not make it easier for them to feel accepted

I think some people call women 'a dick' when those women are not compliant in being 'a dick panderer.'

I keep going back to my cultural reference, and all the abuses and brutalisation of women in Ireland of the last century. Mind you, I think the fauxgressive dudes of today can say 'hold my beer'. I think they may be setting up the environment so that girls and women can be abused all over again. New religion, same old.

The 'bad' women who became pregnant outside marriage. Not all, but many were abused, and even the victims of incest. But the men who fathered these children got off scot free, even from disapproval. They locked these women up, although not guilty of any crime. The police even brought them back if they escaped from this incarceration.

Nuns ran many of those places (handmaidens to a 'morality' which favoured men). Many if not most 'good' people were morally outraged at these women and thought it good to lock up women who became mothers outside marriage. A moral outrage not extended to the fathers who remained free and experienced no impediment to living their lives as full and free citizens.

There are always people (including women) who call women who don't toe some sort of line as 'dicks'. Fallen women (those not toeing the line) just have new slurs. The same hypocrisy still lives.

I wonder where the 'righteousness' of using a person's bespoke pronouns (one's which have no relation to their sex) end. Can you say 'it is only manners' without end?

So, say 'your majesty'. Or, 'big bum'. You could use anything really. It would be rude not to use them, would it?

Sorry that sounds dreadful!! I meant that I didn't even accept that being transgender was a real thing, it didn't exist. I was a 'terf' essentially 😬

Implied that being a banana face was a good thing? I just.. I don't know how to respond to that 😂 it's neither good nor bad, it's nonsense (to me) but who cares, can still be kind.

Howabout 'your exalted and most high godhead'? Only when applied to me and only me . It is a recognised 'king/Queen Gender identity. N'est ce pas? Before any bigoted haters accuse me of taking the p. My identity is real and valid!.

I'm sorry, but that leaves me no further enlightened. What does that mean? It's not something any 'terf' believes.

This makes as much sense as saying you don't believe Christians are a real thing. Did you think it

Oh, FFS mumsnet. And my fingers.

Anyway, continuing.

Did you think it was an urban myth that some people experienced distress about their bodies to the extent they would want surgery and hormonal treatment to change their appearance? I did once meet someone who didn't believe in peanut allergies. Was it like that?

"I did once meet someone who didn't believe in peanut allergies. Was it like that?" 🤔 No..

I meant I believed along the lines that you can't change biological sex therefore 'transgender' was just a made up kind of nonsense, and I did not recognise their chosen pronouns etc. I was an ignorant twat basically.

Terfs reject transgender people living as their chosen gender, right? That's my understanding of it in a nutshell. To be honest, I never looked too much into it, I was just uneducated about the whole thing and had very uneducated views, basically 🤷🏻‍♀️ I don't know how else to explain it to you.

I am not sure 'educated' is being used in the traditional sense, here.

You used to think you can't change biological sex, but now you think that you can?

Maybe a biology course might help. A good solid Science course. It will broaden the mind and might make less room for the (as you say) nonsense, ignorance and unedumacation. Professor Robert Winston said you cannot change your biological sex. Ever.

In light of ignorance and how a biology course is very useful for a basic understanding of how we work, a memory just came to me.

I took Biology as a subject for my Leaving Certificate (school leaving exam). I have a relative who is a solicitor. She and a friend had heard someone say that whether a boy or girl is conceived is dependent on the father's sperm. They had not known that it was the male gamete which fertilised the ovum which gave rise to the sex of an embryo. These were two women with law degrees, and professional qualifications. I think they were a little aghast and I had to point out that it was not a choice or conscious selection by the father. Just which little sperm successfully fertilised the ovum first.

But how do you know if it was the mother or father who provided the sperm? 😜

This is hard work.

I used to believe you can't change biological sex THEREFORE transgender people were being ridiculous.

I'm not saying I now believe you can change biological sex, I'm saying that transgender people are still valid regardless, because it's about gender, not sex.

This is really condescending. But thanks 👍🏻

Yep, the traditional meaning of educated is precisely what I meant. Don't be rude.

And no, I don't. From my limited understanding of biology you absolutely cannot, in any way, change your biological sex.

It's hard work because you have totally misunderstood what being gender critical is. Most of us on here believe that anyone should be able to present exactly how they like and should not be discriminated or abused for it, however, no matter what a male or female does to their body, or how they present, the can not change sex and in certain circumstances, single sex spaces should remain that. We don't want Trans people to not exist, we just don't agree that they have changed sex and males should be excluded from female spaces no matter what they identify as.