J Lo’s daughter

[Dinosaurhearmeroar]

www.elle.com/culture/celebrities/a40340238/jennifer-lopez-emme-sing-duet-they-them-pronouns/

not sure if my you’ve seen this yet - at first I thought it was being misreported because she was introduced as a special guest so I thought the use of “they” was deliberately ambiguous. Got it wrong!

lots of plaudits for j lo today for supporting her daughter. I feel torn about it - I highly doubt j Lo has any clue about any of the topics on this thread etc so is just being a supportive parent, arguably.

I suppose this is all part of a bigger question I have about using pronouns really. I’ve looked at filia’s guidance and legal feminist about this and totally agree with it, but I know there are lots of gender critical feminists who will use someone’s preferred pronouns out of politeness etc.

bit of a ramble - but would love to know where people stand on this issue and if you have refused to use someone’s pronouns when asked how they responded.

x

Hear hear

You think someone decides to suddenly become trans because their mother is "heavily sexualised?!
Well yes, seeing that becoming a woman = becoming sexualised by men/society is a reason some girls are scared of becoming a woman. Nothing new there by the way. Becoming an adult human female isn't a fun process for most of us anyway and add in the sexualisation before we're ready just makes it worse.

Sounds a bit armchair Freud like.
J Lo is being herself.
Her child is their own person as well.
Nothing to do with armchair Freud. Who to be fair, may have something interesting to say about this phenomenon!
But the idea that mothers and daughters are entirely separate entities, with the older one having no influence on the younger is preposterous!

Very 🙄 to say that her child wants to opt out of being a woman because of her mum's look and style.
😂 Obviously all 14 year olds want to dress, behave and have the same careers as their mothers! (Even though they're separate entities...)

Why would that make you want to opt out of womanhood anyway? Is being "highly sexualised" something to stay away from, something to be ashamed of, something you'd want no part of?
As an adolescent girl, being sexualised is definitely something that can be unwelcome - as if you didn't know that. And women's sexualisation isn't about women, it's about men's sexual fantasies. So it's really rather strange that anybody would imagine that a child would want to meet the sexual fantasies of adult men. Because when we're discussing this, we're talking about an under age girl and I can see no reason why she should want to be sexualised.

And it's rather odd, but I sense a rather disingenuous odour here. Can't imagine why. Perhaps you can explain why a child should be comfortable being sexualised, seeing as you apparently don't understand why one wouldn't want to be? And do you realise that womanhood and "highly sexualised" don't - or should have to - go hand in hand?!

Well yes, seeing that becoming a woman = becoming sexualised by men/society is a reason some girls are scared of becoming a woman
Heaven forbid some women like that style themselves and it having fuck all to do with men.

Hi, JLo, keep your child out of the limelight until they are an adult. Their gender confusion is none of my business and shouldn't be used as a publicity prop.

@aweegc

Non binary doesn't necessarily mean trans. You can be non binary. But not be trans. Surely?

Aside from the obtuseness of the claim that highly sexualised presentation is nothing to do with men (the clue is in the word sexualised - of course it relates to the opposite sex), while some women may enjoy it, teenage girls often don’t.

100% agree

Eh?
No, declaring yourself non-binary is the fastest and most efficient way of being launched into the Trans (and LGBTQ+) utmost revered sector of humankind without actually having to be anything other than a heterosexual male or female.

You might need to dye your hair though. I forgot that bit.

I just say 'they' for everyone unless they've made it clear they use he or she. I just do this by default with no actual thought these days. It's not difficult, it doesn't harm anyone and stops people being from being offended, so win win win🤷🏻‍♀️

There's a contagion in that family as J-lo's sister's child is trans/NB as is Afflecks's younger daughter. 3 girls who are deeply uncomfortable about their female identity.

"Sarah asked if Sarah could delegate some of Sarah's work as Sarah won't have time to do it all Sarah's self today?"

"Sarah doesn't have much time today so wanted to delegate some work."

I'm used to doing this, though. Several colleagues/students have preferred pronouns and I will just refer to them by name. I've gotten good at working around the problem!

I used to joke about using it/it pronouns to make ideologists squirm.

I guess teenagers will be teenagers and anything that upsets the grownups has to be a good thing!

As for J Lo, I can see why a young girl growing up in such a sexualised industry would try and find a way to cope.

@SuziSecondLaw I just say 'they' for everyone unless they've made it clear they use he or she. I just do this by default with no actual thought these days. It's not difficult, it doesn't harm anyone and stops people being from being offended, so win win win
im guessing you know very few autistic people with language disorders then? This would make it almost impossible for my son to understand what you were saying. Like many autistic children he struggled to learn pronouns at all (so I too can avoid them in conversation fairly adeptly now), using “they” in place of he/she/him/her is a disaster for an already struggling person.

You're right, I don't know anybody with language disorders. I've never heard of anything like that before.
I would of course do what I could to help someone like your son understand my meaning.

It's hard enough at that age to accept that your mum is a sexual being, let alone seeing endless sexy selfies and pictures of her draping herself over yachts in teeny tiny bikinis, the whole world talking about her bum. (We're all a bit vain sometimes, but is JLo not a bit bored of it by now?). I can certainly see how the situation might make a teenage girl feel a bit conflicted about womanhood. JLo might be an extreme example, but I can't imagine it sets a normal example for any child if their parent is always posting selfies for approval (and what other reason is there?).

@SuziSecondLaw my own child would very obviously not understand a word you said as he’s more severely language disordered but it’s a more minor confusion for a large number of autistics and also fairly obstructive for non native speakers. It really isn’t a win win for those who are already disadvantaged and struggle to communicate. They’re not given much thought by most because they literally have no voice.

It seems likely that the regime required to hero that going into your 50s is quite extreme - wouldn’t blame the kid for being a bit repelled by all that

You appear to have forgotten that we are talking about a child

I knew you had trouble with the concept of what a woman was and thought males should be treated as women. I didn't realise you were now fully behind treating female children like women too.

I've never met someone like this. So, the win win comment was in relation to what I experience in my life..

My niece is autistic and doesn't struggle with it, but I'm sure if she did I'd do what I could to help.

Oh give over. No one is really this daft.

Not everyone is in heterosexual relationships

It’s commonplace in the autistic community as is a preference (increased frequency) of using names instead of pronouns. You may find your niece does it so seamlessly you just have never noticed.

Some posts on this thread remind me of this article.

My Life As A Sex Object by Jessica Valenti

This is nothing to do with relationships. It’s about a woman’s worth being based on how fuckable she is by the majority of men.

Absolutely this.

I don’t use preferred pronouns as they are an extension of a belief system that I do not subscribe to, that I consider to be harmful to women and children and gay people.

It’s the same as me not observing other religious practices, because I do not subscribe to that particular religion. It isn’t kind, or respectful, to expect people to say or do things they don’t believe in. That includes pronouns.