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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Standing for Women Bristol

478 replies

axolotlfloof · 19/06/2022 08:17

Anyone going to College Green this afternoon for the rally?
I am hoping to if I am feeling better - crappy cold, and hope the weather holds.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
Jeorgetown · 24/06/2022 01:12

Extra attachment

Standing for Women Bristol
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 24/06/2022 01:18

They make all sorts of excuses to each other. Their attempts at self-deceit do not make their behaviour reasonable.

I saw a trans activist (who seems to be the darling of some authors in children's publishing, worryingly) call Allison Bailey (black lesbian lawyer, suing Stonewall and her Chambers for discrimination) a white supremacist this morning.

I ask you. They use words to mean what they want!

Jeorgetown · 24/06/2022 01:26

I saw a trans activist (who seems to be the darling of some authors in children's publishing, worryingly) call Allison Bailey (black lesbian lawyer, suing Stonewall and her Chambers for discrimination) a white supremacist this morning.

Do you suspect this person to be an anarchist who protests in black bloc?

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 24/06/2022 01:36

According to you, the men who protest in black bloc are inspired to do so by twitter posts calling feminists right-wing and so on. I am pointing out how unreliable, illogical and simply self-serving such accusations are.

If anyone dresses up in black bloc to menace women, they need to take some personal responsibility for their inability to assess information critically. And then they need to admit that "right wing" and all the rest of it was an excuse to threaten people weaker than them.

If you are dressing up in camouflage to suppress people speaking, it's usually you who are the fascist.

Jeorgetown · 24/06/2022 01:41

Have a dig around in the Telegram groups shown in the attachments, you'll see what's going on more clearly then.

The police are no more interested in protecting Standing For Women than they were the English Defense League.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 24/06/2022 01:54

I'm sorry? I am supposed to develop a more complete picture of what is going on in real life from immersing myself in Telegram?

And I am supposed to use whom the police do and do not protect as a tool of moral guidance?

So that means that if the police suppressed a miners' strike, the miners' were in the wrong, then? To say NOTHING of far more recent behaviour, like police officers failing to prevent women being murdered by stalkers, police officers taking selfies with murdered women, and police officers strip-searching black schoolgirls.

Bristol is the city where a police officer tased one of the force's own Race Relations Advisers, after mistaking him for a wanted man!

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-taser-race-relations-adviser-bristol-claire-boddie-misconduct-hearing-a8522846.html

FOJN · 24/06/2022 08:08

Billi77 · 24/06/2022 00:04

The sad truth is yes. The meeting in itself did provoke the riots. I don’t see how anyone can deny that?

A man might justify hitting a woman because she didn't do as she was told but I don't think anyone would agree that a woman saying no to a man is provocation. It's the "look what you made me do defence" and it's victim blaming.

The bullies in Bristol are responsible for their own appalling behaviour. Women lawfully meeting just to speak is not provocation unless you think women should shut up and stay at home whilst their rights are taken away.

Bosky · 24/06/2022 08:16

Jeorgetown · 24/06/2022 01:26

I saw a trans activist (who seems to be the darling of some authors in children's publishing, worryingly) call Allison Bailey (black lesbian lawyer, suing Stonewall and her Chambers for discrimination) a white supremacist this morning.

Do you suspect this person to be an anarchist who protests in black bloc?

Please do not try to use Mumsnet Forums to dox anarchists. Mumsnet does not allow doxing and I am sure the anarchists are none too keen on it either.

Braggiography · 24/06/2022 08:40

So ... women meeting up in groups may be seen as 'gc' feminists and this may provoke leftwing masked men into attacking them, which may provoke other aggressive rightwing males to discuss the news item?

And this is, of course, the fault of the women for meeting up. Plausibly, for not being quiet and ladylike when they did so.

Relevant rules of misogyny:

1. Women are responsible for what men do.
2. Women saying no to men is a hate crime.
3. Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.
4. Women’s opinions are violence against men, thus male violence against women is justified.

  1. Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.
  2. Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breastfeeding babies deserve punishment.
  3. Women should always be grateful to men for everything.
  4. Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.
  5. Men always know the “real reasons” for everything women do and say.
10. The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad. 11. Whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men. 12. Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry. 13. Angry women are crazy. Angry men have trouble expressing themselves. 14. Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent. 15. Men are the default human. Women are strange subhuman others. 16. Everyone owns and controls women’s bodies except the women themselves.

The clear moral is that women should not meet and/or talk to each other, lest males misinterpret their meeting/talking and fight each other/women over it.

picklemewalnuts · 24/06/2022 08:47

It's appalling that women are being misrepresented in this way.
It's appalling that extremists take facts and use them to whip up hatred.

None of that means women are misbehaving, or that facts are unreasonable.

Anyone who thinks that gravity is right wing propaganda and a conspiracy to stop us all flying is responsible for their own delusions. Don't blame Newton, don't blame gravity.

Billi77 · 24/06/2022 09:57

the pampers do not represent the vast majority of trans people though. They are detrimental to the healthy development of any rational discussion. It can be argued that KJK poses a similar threat. More and more kids are coming out as trans and many are being armed with mysogenistic rage to ‘fight the fight’. Much like a small handful of GC women, men and Daily Mail readers are being armed with transphobic rage to ‘fight the fight’. This doesn’t feel
like healthy grounds for biological women and trans women to leave their houses without fear.

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 24/06/2022 10:07

It can be argued that KJK poses a similar threat.

go on then

rather than just throwing slurs around, how about actually justifying them?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/06/2022 10:08

A man might justify hitting a woman because she didn't do as she was told but I don't think anyone would agree that a woman saying no to a man is provocation. It's the "look what you made me do defence" and it's victim blaming.

The bullies in Bristol are responsible for their own appalling behaviour. Women lawfully meeting just to speak is not provocation unless you think women should shut up and stay at home whilst their rights are taken away.

This. TRAs are the bullies here.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/06/2022 10:10

More and more kids are coming out as trans

Many of the most abusive people at the Bristol protest looked to be grown men.

FOJN · 24/06/2022 10:16

Much like a small handful of GC women, men and Daily Mail readers are being armed with transphobic rage to ‘fight the fight’. This doesn’t feel like healthy grounds for biological women and trans women to leave their houses without fear.

No hate or rage here. No discussion can be productive if one side demands that the other side agree with a lie before we begin. KJK is making a case for clear unambiguous language. It shouldn't be necessary to debate the meaning of words we all understood until about 5 minutes ago but it is. You cannot claim you want a good faith discussion if you accuse people of hate for simply asking that terms of reference be clearly defined. No legislation would be worth the paper it's written on if the words on that paper have no universally understood meaning. It will lead to bad law as demonstrated by the GRA.

DeaconBoo · 24/06/2022 10:18

there are also many who see the GC movement as being associated with the British far right

So people with no critical thinking or analytical skills believe what they read from Twitter screenshots and that sets off a chain of events where women are at risk from harm? The equivalent of antivaxxers, basically.

It looks like your priority should be encouraging media literacy, good-faith debate skills and understanding of women's fears without telling them which political labels you deem them to fall under. How about it, or is that not violent enough for your liking?

Braggiography · 24/06/2022 11:33

there are also many who see the GC movement as being associated with the British far right

There are many who see yoga as the devil's work, anti-Christian, and associated with Satanism.

Doesn't mean we all need to give up yoga classes, does it?

ifIwerenotanandroid · 24/06/2022 14:05

Nice one, Braggi! I was in a yoga class which was denied the use of a church hall when they found out we did relaxing meditation as part of the class. Ignorance & prejudice are everywhere.

What I don't understand about recent events is this:

Doesn't anyone who's holding a meeting/protest/demo in public have to inform the police? I've read that someone on the women's side sent info to the police about the Bristol meeting. Presumably the protesters did the same, otherwise their protest would be unlawful - is this correct?

Assuming both sides had to inform the police in advance, what did/should the police do when they receive notification in advance that two opposing groups were going to be in the same space, one starting one hour before the other? (Didn't this also happen in Manchester at the EP statue?)

I'm not up to speed with police procedure, but it seems to me common sense for someone with authority over the public to use their powers to keep the two groups apart, perhaps by allowing whoever got their application/notification in first to go ahead as planned, & moving the other group to another time, date or location (far enough away that they can't be heard by the first group). Then, if members of the second group tried to stick to their original plan or disrupt the first group, they could more easily be arrested. Does this make sense? We have people of all backgrounds & professions on MN, so I'm hoping someone with the right experience can come on & explain this.

Bosky · 24/06/2022 14:16

There were accusations either in this thread or the "Bring Back Posie!" (something like that) thread, or possibly both, that FWR is the "Posie Fan Club". Which is a childish insult intended to belittle us.

It also deflects from the admiration that many of us feel for the women, girls (and even a few men) who attend Standing For Women events. I am so glad that they are live-streamed, so that those of us who cannot attend still get to see and hear their, speeches, poetry, stories, songs and the odd bit of stand-up to make us laugh.

Over the last few days I have stumbled across several statements of support and solidarity for KJK and the SFW Women. So I thought I would post some of them here, because the "Posie Fan Club" is much bigger than some people would like us to think and there is an equally broad base of support for the women, girls (and the few men) who gather under the SFW Banner 💚🤍💜

But first . . .

"Statement on our Bristol event"
Standing for women statement
“Bristol Speakers’ corner” event,
College Green, Bristol
19th June 2022

Standing for women organised a women’s free speech event “Let Women Speak”, not a protest or a rally.

It’s an event aimed at combatting the silencing of women’s voices on the erasure of our rights, our spaces and our language posed by the totalitarian transgender promoting ideologues.

We are not afraid to take this issue to the wider public who are covertly being kettled into this pernicious and dishonest ideology through national and local government, the justice system, global corporations, our NHS and schools.

Our attendees are peaceful law abiding concerned citizens, they are mostly women.

We invite ordinary women to speak, we are a broad church.

Standing For Women is apolitical, all women are welcome. We even fight for the rights of women who disagree with us.

We refute the claims made by some media and the Avon and Somerset police that there was bad behaviour on “both sides”. Aggressive and threatening men, on the MRA/TRA side, were very close to our wardens and attendees.

They shouted obscenities in the faces of women and they tried to push through the police line, there were physical confrontations by men in masks.

Our communications lead, Iris, had worked very hard to inform the police about the sort of male aggression and violence women may encounter.
She was, frankly, ignored.

This was particularly striking following our event in Manchester. The policing in Bristol was inadequate and dangerous.

The male aggression and intimidation women experienced in Bristol was revolting.

Women were told to die, get in the sea by threatening men in masks.

Women were asked by the police to go home, rather than enjoy refreshments in a bar we had hired.

Apparently the police can choose to protect women on the basis of whether or not we are eating or drinking, as a senior officer told me that the police were not here to protect us in the pub. The Slug and Lettuce, St.Nicholas Street, Bristol decided to close rather than continue serving joyful and peace loving women due to the male aggressors surrounding the venue.

The police did not disperse the agitators and maintained that they could not guarantee our safety.

Standing For Women will be asking Chief Constable Sarah Crewand, PCC Mark Shelford, Mayor Marvin Rees, and Minister of State for Crime and Policing Kit Malthouse to examine footage to see how better to protect women at public events.

No other group of people would be expected to bow so submissively to the whims of threatening aggressors.

Women know that the police would have worked harder to protect us if we had been men calling themselves women, rather than the old fashioned adult human female variety.

Standing For Women would like to thank all of the brave attendees who faced the onslaught of violent misogyny and made their voices heard.

We extend special thanks to those women who held the line as wardens and our Communications lead, Iris, who went above and beyond to try and facilitate a peaceful gathering.

Kellie-Jay and team
PS. Boys, we won't be quiet.
www.standingforwomen.com/so/c1O60pvbi

Bosky · 24/06/2022 14:16

STATEMENT IN SUPPORT OF STANDING FOR WOMEN

Scottish Feminist Network sends support and solidarity to Standing For Women.

Women gathered in Bristol at the weekend to discuss their sex-based rights protected in the Equality Act 2010, only to be met with an intimidating, baying mob of masked men who aggressively threatened, harassed and abused them. The baying mob went as as far as to follow them to a pub, where the women were trapped inside.

You would be forgiven for thinking those scenes were from some backward country, where women are viewed as lesser beings for men to use and abuse at will. Sadly this is the UK in 2022.

These scenes have become common place, where women gather yet we are told the aggressors are on the "right side of history".

You are never on the right side of history when you are determined to shut down free speech in any democracy. You are never on the right side of history when you exploit any marginalised group to bully and intimidate women.

Male violence against women is at epidemic levels across the UK yet the Police did not intervene. Many are rightly asking why the Police facilitated this public spectacle of misogynistic and sexist abuse. Standing For Women (founded by Kellie-Jay Keen) had forewarned the Police of the potential for an aggressive protest, repeatedly seen across this island whenever women gather. What happened to policing without fear or favour and public consent?

Women did not consent to the Police standing back and allowing these men’s rights activists to disrupt their event in such an aggressive and threatening manner. The optics were ugly and sent a chilling message to women defending our rights - the Police will not protect us.

Women have had to fight long, hard battles for every right secured and we owe it to our foremothers to defend those hard won rights. We are the custodians of those rights and we will not betray them.

Know this : we will not give up. We will not allow the bullies and aggressors to win. We stand with all women in defending our rights!

Scottish Feminist Network
scottishfeministnetwork.co.uk/f/statement-in-support-of-standing-for-women

Bosky · 24/06/2022 14:17

"WDI supports Kellie-Jay Keen and Standing for Women"

Following the shocking events in Bristol yesterday where women meeting to discuss their sex-based rights were abused, threatened and trapped by masked men, WDI offers our full support to Kellie-Jay Keen, a warrior for women and children’s rights, and her organisation, Standing for Women.

Articles 4 and 5 of the Declaration on Women’s Sex-Based Rights reaffirm women’s rights to freedom of opinion, expression and association. It is unacceptable that in 2022 women are not able to meet peacefully to discuss issues that affect them without facing violence and intimidation. We call on politicians in Bristol to condemn this attack on women’s democratic rights. Furthermore, following the inadequate level of policing at this event, where women trapped in a pub were forced out to face a baying mob of masked men screaming threats and abuse at them, we call on Avon and Somerset Police to investigate their response and reaffirm their commitment to police protests effectively

Women's Declaration International (Declaration on Women's Sex-Based Rights)
www.womensdeclaration.com/en/resources/statements-and-letters/wdi-statement-in-support-of-kellie-jay-keen/

"Let Women Speak"

It was obvious that someone would claim “both sides”. Despite women being hassled, intimidated and surrounded by a lot of very angry men and gaslit women at the Standing for Women Speakers’ Corner event at College Green in Bristol. . . .

. . . Women are being harassed and bullied in a way that no other demographic, no other protected characteristic, would be.

It is not “both-sides” if one group meets to speak and the other tries to drown them out.

It is not “both-sides” when one group goes to a pub and the other follows and intimidates them.

It is not “both-sides” when the police are concerned for the safety of a group of women who have the temerity to speak about our sex-based rights because they are being threatened by masked men.

Our sex-based rights are protected by the Equality Act 2010, and our beliefs are worthy of respect in a democratic society.

Women's Rights Network

Full text here:
www.womensrights.network/post/let-women-speak

Bosky · 24/06/2022 14:17

"A mob threatening women is not a ‘protest’ – and police in Bristol should have known that"

  • Aggressive men threatening women has little to do with 'democratic rights'
  • The police's pious statement belies a totally inadequate response to events in Bristol
  • These angry young misogynists will only be emboldened by the police response on Sunday

"Policing has a huge mountain to climb to regain the confidence of women after the organisational and human calamity of Sarah Everard’s murder. Wider still, most people will see a capitulation to mob violence seeking to silence lawful gatherings and wonder what is happening to basic civility on the streets. Most ominously, the angry young men who have fallen with glee on a type of ‘permissive’ misogyny which sits on the extremes of trans activism will only be emboldened by the supine policing they observed in Bristol.

The sort of behaviour on display against women last Sunday never stops escalating unless it is decisively confronted. We should not be outsourcing this task to a group of brave women who are simply concerned about the loss of hard-won sex rights and the erosion of their identities."

Professor Ian Acheson, Senior Advisor to the Counter Extremism Project

Full text here:
capx.co/a-mob-threatening-women-is-not-a-protest-and-police-in-bristol-should-have-known-that/

IcakethereforeIam · 24/06/2022 14:19

Are the notifications to the police for demos, protests, meetings, etc. public documents? If they are where can they be viewed? I'll see what I can find.

Bosky · 24/06/2022 14:20

Kathleen Stock
web.archive.org/web/20220624072313/twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1539337442649587712

Just thought I'd say for record - I think Posie Parker's activism is highly astute and very effective. I admire her for it. I was critical in past but have since changed my mind. She doesn't have to like me, for me to say this (am fairly sure she doesn't!). There's room for all.
Jun 21, 2022·

Helen Joyce
twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1539871299488595970

Pleased to say that both Posie Parker (Kellie-Jay) & Kathleen Stock featured in my book. I think they’re both incredible women. Posie is a remarkable campaigner. Kath is even more brilliant in her writing now she’s freed from academia. I particularly admire their fearlessness

Maya Forstater
twitter.com/MForstater/status/1539313444926758916

Just been on the phone with my mum, who says "I've been watching that Kellie-Jay @StandingforXX on YouTube"
😊

Might have to get a new t-shirt!
adulthumanfemale.store/product-page/your-mum-s-a-terf-organic-t-shirt

And that was RTweeted by Baroness Nicholson 🖕

Standing for Women Bristol
Standing for Women Bristol
IcakethereforeIam · 24/06/2022 14:24

Apparently, if your protest doesn't involve a march you don't have to notify the police:

www.gov.uk/protests-and-marches-letting-the-police-know