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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Standing for Women Bristol

478 replies

axolotlfloof · 19/06/2022 08:17

Anyone going to College Green this afternoon for the rally?
I am hoping to if I am feeling better - crappy cold, and hope the weather holds.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
Bosky · 24/06/2022 14:30

ifIwerenotanandroid · 24/06/2022 14:05

Nice one, Braggi! I was in a yoga class which was denied the use of a church hall when they found out we did relaxing meditation as part of the class. Ignorance & prejudice are everywhere.

What I don't understand about recent events is this:

Doesn't anyone who's holding a meeting/protest/demo in public have to inform the police? I've read that someone on the women's side sent info to the police about the Bristol meeting. Presumably the protesters did the same, otherwise their protest would be unlawful - is this correct?

Assuming both sides had to inform the police in advance, what did/should the police do when they receive notification in advance that two opposing groups were going to be in the same space, one starting one hour before the other? (Didn't this also happen in Manchester at the EP statue?)

I'm not up to speed with police procedure, but it seems to me common sense for someone with authority over the public to use their powers to keep the two groups apart, perhaps by allowing whoever got their application/notification in first to go ahead as planned, & moving the other group to another time, date or location (far enough away that they can't be heard by the first group). Then, if members of the second group tried to stick to their original plan or disrupt the first group, they could more easily be arrested. Does this make sense? We have people of all backgrounds & professions on MN, so I'm hoping someone with the right experience can come on & explain this.

This article has something to say about some of those things:

A mob threatening women is not a ‘protest’ – and police in Bristol should have known that

Extracts - but do read the full article:

"There’s a fistful of public order legislation that could have enabled officers to first warn and then arrest these screeching men (It’s always men at these confrontations, isn’t it?). They committed the Full English of offence requirements – their behaviour could be reasonably described as threatening, abusive or disorderly.

Moreover, waving signs with ‘Terfs can suck my dick’ in front of a group of women who are pejoratively known by that descriptor surely made it possible for police action under the same legislation which makes it an offence to display any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening or abusive. Both offences must be committed ‘within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby’
– a threshold met and exceeded as the targets of these totalitarian toddlers were surrounded, hounded and screamed at."

This is the point where context is always deployed in defence of such operational failures. Ah! But what about Impartiality? What about proportionality? What about the human rights of the counter-protestors? On all three points, my mate Jon Burrows, a former police commander in Derry and no stranger to opposing demonstrations, summed up the position perfectly in one tweet.

‘They are confusing impartiality with neutrality; it is the job of the police to be the former not the latter. There is no human right in the ECHR to intimidate & threaten (hence art 11 is qualified Right). An order to remove masks should have been made & intimidation dealt with.’

Dealing with both sides of the protest with aching even-handedness while there is a clear imbalance in the threat posed is not a proportionate response. The women in the original rally were quite obviously being threatened and intimidated by black-clad and masked trans activists. In my view, police should have made early arrests and that would have taken all the steam out of what was a scalable situation, had there been enough officers available to deal with what the forces top brass had had days to foresee. There seemed to not even be a determined attempt to create space between both sides.

There are various other allegations being made by the organisers of Women Standing Together, including the police stating that a pub the women then retreated to which was surrounded by protestors could not be protected, leading to it closing early. But the awful video footage of naked aggression being apparently ignored by police is striking.

Policing has a huge mountain to climb to regain the confidence of women after the organisational and human calamity of Sarah Everard’s murder. Wider still, most people will see a capitulation to mob violence seeking to silence lawful gatherings and wonder what is happening to basic civility on the streets. Most ominously, the angry young men who have fallen with glee on a type of ‘permissive’ misogyny which sits on the extremes of trans activism will only be emboldened by the supine policing they observed in Bristol.

The sort of behaviour on display against women last Sunday never stops escalating unless it is decisively confronted. We should not be outsourcing this task to a group of brave women who are simply concerned about the loss of hard-won sex rights and the erosion of their identities.

The Policing Minister Kit Malthouse will no doubt want to see Avon and Somerset’s Public Order Strategic Threat and Risk Assessment that must have been carried out in advance of this well trailed confrontation. It’s important for public confidence in Bristol and across the country to see that people can assemble lawfully without having to be corralled in a pub, and that police are not neutral or neutered by ideology in the face of aggressive behaviour.

Professor Ian Acheson is Senior Advisor to the Counter Extremism Project.

Bosky · 24/06/2022 14:39

IcakethereforeIam · 24/06/2022 14:24

Apparently, if your protest doesn't involve a march you don't have to notify the police:

www.gov.uk/protests-and-marches-letting-the-police-know

The Standing For Women event was neither a protest nor a march but they did notify the police. The contacted the police repeatedly to ensure that they were aware that there would be other people arriving to protest against their presence in Bristol.

So, there was only one protest. It was a protest against SFW.

"Our communications lead, Iris, had worked very hard to inform the police about the sort of male aggression and violence women may encounter.

She was, frankly, ignored."

"Statement on our Bristol event"
Standing for women statement
“Bristol Speakers’ corner” event,
College Green, Bristol
19th June 2022
www.standingforwomen.com/so/c1O60pvbi

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/06/2022 16:17

Professor Ian Acheson, Senior Advisor to the Counter Extremism Project

Excellent piece.

IcakethereforeIam · 24/06/2022 17:35

Thanks for all those posts @Bosky . The Police were warned by SFW about the counter protest (it seems wrong to call it that as SFW weren't holding a protest).

Musomama1 · 24/06/2022 18:15

I do have concerns for the Brighton event, the combination of a captured police - somewhere in the building that very week they'll probably be having some pointless meeting about inclusivity and pronouns... plus just how many aggressive TRAs and let's face it aggressive joyriders will want to come and have a pop.

Not sure what the answer is if Bristol have been shown to not take things seriously.

Billi77 · 24/06/2022 23:53

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 24/06/2022 10:07

It can be argued that KJK poses a similar threat.

go on then

rather than just throwing slurs around, how about actually justifying them?

As a homosexual I resent her calling homosexuals groomers. I think I’d resent this if I were heterosexual too. Are you ok with it then ? I could go on but doing so among her mega fans is like running into a brick wall.

FemaleAndLearning · 25/06/2022 00:34

I will not submit and I'll be in Brighton for the Let Women Speak event 18 September 2022.
I've written to the Avon and Somerset (Bristol) PCC Mark Shelford to ask for an apology to the Let Women Speak attendees and copied in the Sussex PCC (Brighton) to ask them to do better.

CrossStichQueen · 25/06/2022 05:36

I am no mega fan of KJK Billi however I am curious as to what threat you feel she poses?

Helleofabore · 25/06/2022 06:57

Have I missed the links to where KJK has called all homosexual people groomers?

Or that there are disproportionately more homosexual people who groom others compared to heterosexual or bisexual people?

I have dipped in and out of the thread so I might have missed it.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 25/06/2022 08:58

I don’t think ive seen it helleofabore

im also not a megafan, or any sort of fan but what ive taken from that post is that if i ask for links or evidence or proof, however you want to term it then that makes me a fan

apologies if thats not the case billi

but i feel if i ask for a link or I disagree with your interpretation then thats what you’ll say

CrossStichQueen · 25/06/2022 09:04

I have re-read the thread this morning and can't see anything showing Billis claim that KJK has stated homosexuales are groomers.

Obviously I would like this claim back up as it is very serious so I am sure Billi will pop back at some point and provide the necessary.

Helleofabore · 25/06/2022 09:31

Thanks Rufus.

This has seemed like a rinse and repeat action of the claims being made on other threads such as the LGB Alliance threads. As in, claims made that are quite serious, but no evidence. On that thread some pretty deeply entrenched prejudices have been doubled down on despite it being constantly shown that there is no evidence.

Billi77 · 25/06/2022 10:00

Not sure if this works but it came from a straightforward Google. Nothing appearing when attempting to paste

IcakethereforeIam · 25/06/2022 10:07

Thanks for coming back @Billi77 nothing showing on my device, what did you Google? I'm a bit of a coward with searches, my kids can see what I've been googliing.

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 25/06/2022 10:09

Billi77 · 25/06/2022 10:00

Not sure if this works but it came from a straightforward Google. Nothing appearing when attempting to paste

yup, can't see that i'm afraid - why not include a link rather than a screen shot? you won't have problems attaching that. I get that the flaky new and improved sute can be a problem!

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 25/06/2022 10:11

Helleofabore · 25/06/2022 09:31

Thanks Rufus.

This has seemed like a rinse and repeat action of the claims being made on other threads such as the LGB Alliance threads. As in, claims made that are quite serious, but no evidence. On that thread some pretty deeply entrenched prejudices have been doubled down on despite it being constantly shown that there is no evidence.

I find it both interesting and UNBELIEVABLY frustrating. I guess there's little point arguing with a zealot, you won't change their mind.

It does make me fret about where my blind spots are

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/06/2022 10:23

I find when I have issues pasting something from the internet, it helps to paste into an email or similar, and then take from there and paste onto the post in MN @Billi77 you could try that?

Billi77 · 25/06/2022 10:59

m.youtube.com/watch?v=HYkTPgbii7Q

did this work? Thanks for your patience.

i think I’m finding the KJK alliance with the far right (eg Jean-François Gariépy, Tommy Robinson) particularly unsettling given recent results in the US. The world feels a very unsafe place for a homosexual woman right now. I’m genuinely terrified for my children.

also, I am by no means a zealot! Given the context I feel my fears are valid. I don’t want to feel silenced when questioning KJK courting of such figures for an otherwise valid feminist discussion about womens safety. I’m concerned where her funding is coming from too and where this could lead.

Helleofabore Are you trying to infer homosexuals have more tendency to ‘groom’ than heterosexuals ? If so can I please see evidence as that really is the first time I’ve heard anything of the sort.

Thelnebriati · 25/06/2022 11:05

Do you not see a problem with drag queen story time? Or children being exposed to kinks at Pride? Remember the monkey-with-a-penis costume, and an entire website being scrubbed?

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 25/06/2022 11:06

hang on. She doesn't say homosexuals in that video, does she? she says 'the LGBT community'.

and specifically references drag queen story hour. which is now seen as the pre-schooler friendly intro to the concept of trans (weirdly).

so at the risk of offending you as a homosexual, I don't think she's talking about you there.

OK, so I don't think that doesn't mean what you thought it means. I expect you'll disagree.

now onto the most recent unsubstantiated slur you've thrown out

i think I’m finding the KJK alliance with the far right (eg Jean-François Gariépy, Tommy Robinson)+

can we have some receipts for that please?

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 25/06/2022 11:13

@Billi77 I wonder, without looking, if you are linking to a clip from a longer item. And will it have been posted from a small account from someone nobody knows?

Can somebody who posts YT videos let me know if people who click on those links or view a video have their YT details collected?

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 25/06/2022 11:19

can we have some receipts for that please?

I've the feeling, from another thread, that that is going to be a photograph of someone I've never heard of, wearing an Adult Human Female Tshirt.

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 25/06/2022 11:21

yeah, there's 125 subscribers to the account Billi linked to. it's a 21 second clip.

who does this? get a (different) hobby people

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 25/06/2022 11:23

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 25/06/2022 11:19

can we have some receipts for that please?

I've the feeling, from another thread, that that is going to be a photograph of someone I've never heard of, wearing an Adult Human Female Tshirt.

the implication being that KJK is responsile for the behaviour of all the people who buy her stuff?

Doc Martens must be cancelled by now on that basis, surely?

LaughingPriest · 25/06/2022 11:24

The video shows a 20second clip of Posie reading out a quote from someone else talking about Drag Queen Story Hour and how that is an example of the LGBT community attempting to indoctrinate or groom children (and saying she agrees).

The person who uploaded the clip entitled it 'Posie Parker The LGBT community are grooming children' so obviously the specifics were lost.

I think you would need to be able to set out a coherent understanding of what grooming is to be able to clearly articulate whether the allegation is true or not, and unfortunately on MN discussions about grooming are deleted as a matter of course.

I don't think gay people or the LGBT community in general are grooming children, by the way.

I think there is an important discussion to be had about any events involving children and how behaviours that are linked with actual grooming should be consciously avoided - that's safeguarding 101 - but again, we can't really have that discussion here.