Debate on Parliament TV now on trans conversion therapy

[chilling19]

On now. Already had hate from both sides comment.

Oswald - most vulnerable

Groundswell with those with religious faith against gap in ban

Immense harm

Other countries - all gone down this road, nothing terrible has happened (evidence?)

If we leave trans people out - allows it to come in via the back door, so everyone loses

Bit of sucking up to the minister

Of course there’s nothing ‘wrong’ with adults identifying as trans and of course it would be wrong for an adult to be forced to undergo any form of therapy. This isn’t about adults. Nor is it about forced therapy for adults.

This is about twelve year olds who demand binders, cross-sex hormones and surgery. Nobody has acknowledged this yet. Why?

Oh, mention of 50 years of Pride
History of struggle
Love and live
Back to the Safe to be me conference - withdrawal of organisations direct consequence of T being left out of the conversion therapy
Talking about sex attraction?
Why has the govt changed its mind when loads of other organisations supported trans being included?

(Yes, why? Perhaps because they were briefed on the backlash of cutting off bits of people's bodies based on no evidence?)

This is all so confusing. I still don’t know who the quacks are meant to be.

Its happening in Westminster Hall isn't it rather than main chamber - if so it doesn't have much parliamentary influence - opportunity for backbenchers to table a debate and have a minister respond but thats pretty much it

So a ban must not cover psychological services, discussion in families, discussions with religious leaders or worshippers or teachers.

Who the hell is covered?

Other countries again.

Have the govt gathered any evidence

Of Chilling effects
That Trans inclusive ban puts therapy at risk

Minister needs to detail a timetable for decision

Interim - trans people want to leave their lives in dignity etc etc

Now Dodds says it wouldn’t restrict non-coercive services.

So again, what would it cover?

Nonsense on stilts.

Where are all the actual facts and figures? Where is all the proof of conversion therapy? Where are the actual anecdotes of the people who have been subjected to it, and the details of the people who did it to them?

The quacks and charlatans? 🤔

Excellent point, are they talking about one or two malign actors who prey on anyone stupid enough to pay for "quakery"?

Here’s Freer.

‘Excellent point, are they talking about one or two malign actors who prey on anyone stupid enough to pay for "quakery"?’

100% don’t know.

‘A position of ignorance...’ The cheek of him. Every MP is elected and in the same position to comment as him.

Someone - debate saddens me that we are yet to achieve consensus

(real regret that my explanations haven't been accepted unconditionally)

Hurtful, survivors, utter nonsense, suicide, children taken abroad, married off (?) pernicious, rape as corrective control (?), informed bill passage, ensure

Need cast iron clarity that clinicians are protected

Freer still hasn’t given up on an amendment, then.

JDP is asking what the timetable is for a draft bill. Relevant.

Freer just said there’s nothing wrong with a parent disagreeing with their child’s sexual orientation or gender identity.

He said that’s not a conversion practice.

Someone else - narrow scope not have the chance to vote - parliamentary draftsmanship - not reopen equality act and GRA = out of scope.

Narrow, limited to conversion practices and not get hijacked

Ensuring legitimate therapists clinician are protected - parents can have conversations = not a conversion practice

Clinician, teachers, therapists protected to mitigate chilling effect

(He likes 'at pace' as a term)

Not unreasonable to take extra time to build consensus - not wrong to spend the time to do this

Trans healthcare - Cass interim - reform healthcare system for trans - anyone spent any time knows that trans journey cumbersome, doesn't work, people buy things on internet, Wild West.

Cass report complementary, so legislation not dependent on it

Victim support service, gallop is running this, fully inclusive,

I think the safest thing we can say about this is that the quality of parliamentary debate - and of parliamentarians - is not what it used to be.

Got to feel a bit sorry for Freer. He’s getting it from both sides.

Winding up the debate

Shooting a bit in dark, still in draft, minister used conversion practices rather than therapy

All credit to Jackie Doyle-Price for sitting through all that hyperbole, falsehoods and emotional drivel. It must have been very difficult to exercise the discipline required to avoid engaging in eyerolling throughout.

Do you think it is fair to say that the only "conversion practices" they are referring to is so-called "exorcisms" by dubious "pastors"? I couldn't hear any references to other so-called practices.