Men Loitering in Women's Spaces

[Datada]

In the past 2 weeks, l saw a man in a ladies loo, with his family. His wife in a cubicle, him hanging around the sinks with 2 young children. I felt it was an erosion of women's boundaries. There was no need for him to be there, and he felt entitled to be there. When l walked in he didn't bat an eyelid. This was a new level of cheeky fuckery

I had to take a piss and change a tampon with Joe Bloggs standing 2 meters away. I was not comfortable, nor ok with this, and that is my right. l shouldn't have to challenge randomers in my day to day, so l chose not to.

Then last week, a man with his wife in a lingerie dept. l saw him staring at women looking at bras. I was trying to dodge his laser gaze, while trying to find a new bra style. And then thought, fuck this and left. I know a department store is gender neutral, but this guy was a creep. I don't care if a man is buying underwear for himself or his partner, once he is minding his own business and not using the place as fodder for his sexual fantasies.

These heterosexual men now just think it's ok to loiter and look at women in intimate female spaces. Women need a level of comfort and protection just doing daily tasks, this is being erased. Women have a right to privacy. Women need protected spaces.

Yes, yes they do.

In fact they see it as a brilliant thing to be doing, like they are doing a good deed. You are your tampon are unimportant.

He probably put it on his social media later. He's a wonderful man for helped his children wash their hands. All that jazz.

The thing entitled men like this are too stupid or selfish to understand is that they are normalising men in women's toilets for their daughters. Their daughters will not see other men in women's toilets as a threat when they may well be and their daughters will be in danger without the experience to recognise it.

Slow handclap for entitled wankers.

They absolutely should not be in the women’s toilets, but there’s no reason at all for a man who’s with his partner, or looking to buy for her, being in the lingerie department.

This is how the erosion of women’s safe spaces is being normalised. We have to challenge it every time. But god that is such a pain— embarrassing, uncomfortable, possibly dangerous. And in the OP’s example, a woman was actually allowing the man in. Why couldn’t he wait outside with the kids, as he should?

The more often it happens, the sooner it will become absolutely normal, and we’ll have lost a right we’ve had since the 19th century.

I think it's a very odd kind of man that's comfortable / wants to be in these situations? The other day I had to nip into Boux Avenue and my husband and two kids were with me, we had been into other shops on the way and all gone in together, so when I went into Boux they initially followed me in, I turned round to DH and said you can wait outside if you want and he said "ah thank god you said that, I'll be out the front here, shall I take the kids?" And that was that? That's normal, right? I knew he wouldn't want to be in there, it's normal surely for a bloke to feel awkward in what is obviously a female space? Wtf is going on with these guys who are happy / bold as balls, to be walking in and not even for good reason (picking something out with their partner, buying a gift, helping someone who needs assistance or has a disability) but just to tag along and have a good ogle at stuff they wank to stash in their wank bank? I DONT GET IT!?

They *want to stash in their wank bank... although the double wank probably fits for most of the pervs that get off on this stuff.

Just infuriating we can't even do something as simple as buying pants without it being made into some weird fetishised live-action drama for blokes.

The guy in the loo I would have said something to him. No point moaning about it later if you weren't prepared to say something at the time.

The guy in the lingerie department was with his wife. They were shopping together. You're going to get creeps everywhere but you can't stop partners shopping together. If he was looking at you in a way that made you uncomfortable then you should have said something. I'd have just said 'do I know you? You keep looking at me'.

But here's the important point, if you hadn't had said that he would have followed you in and been in the shop, feeling awkward yes and so probably, to other shoppers looking shifty. He didn't volunteer to stay outside, you suggested it.

You think a man is going to have a wank over the memory of a woman looking at bras in a department store?

@NotKevinTurvey did you not know that all men are perverts and have fetishes? All they think about all day is sex and how to Erase women. All men do this. From the moment they are born.

Well if you don't agree with his you'll get hammered on these boards!!

@NotKevinTurvey you're naive if you don't believe that some men lust and fantasise over the simple acts women do! Girls night? Pillow fights in your underwear. Shopping for underwear? Getting turned on in the changing rooms desperate for sex. Spa weekend? Getting bi in the hot tub. It's rife, don't be blind to it.

And as for the poster saying he blindly followed me in and would have stood there looking shifty, it was more the fact I had two kids with me and hands full of shopping bags he was helping me carry, he would have presumed I needed a hand carrying things.

Brill, that most thoughtful people get it! It's because these 2 men were seemingly innocuous that it showed an erosion of women's spaces. There have been crimes committed in these contexts, that's why we have to be vigilant. Yeah, sue me, l give a shit about women and girls.

The creepy bloke that stood behind me and commented on my choices in M&S, while his wife was only 5-10 meters away at the other side of the lingerie department?

Yes. Judging by his comments, I think he will.

This was 10-15 years ago and it still pisses me off. I took one step back and trod very hard on his foot (I wish I had been wearing stilettos) and then reported him to the staff.

But he didn't offer to stay outside with the kids did he?

There's a difference between normal behaviour and creeps. A man might want to buy himself a silk nightie, none of my business. But the stalking behaviour of a pervert, that's something else entirely. Women know the difference because we have to field this shit from childhood.

As a woman too I know that you can spot a creep, but you can't assume all men are. Before you got to the toilet it's highly likely the man had been helping his wife with the two kids going to the toilet. That would just make him thoughtless for not taking the kids outside while she then went. It doesn't mean he was hanging around in there to take his spot in a womens space. He was being a father. If he was stood there with no kids you'd have a point, under the circumstances I'd have just said "would you mind waiting with the kids outside ".

I think that when people post on these boards they forget that the sobs that are bringing up are the same as the very men that get so much vitriol for just going about their day. They're not always being perverts!!

I think it's a bit of a leap to say that a poster's husband feeling awkward would be interpreted by other shoppers as him being shifty/creepy.
Loads of men go clothes shopping with their wives and girlfriends and you can tell they don't feel thrilled about it and would rather not be there. You see them sitting on chairs by the door or holding the bags and wearily following their wife round. They manage to avoid looking creepy by not leering at other women or making inappropriate comments to other women. The OP specifically said it was the man staring at women buying lingerie that she found creepy.

How can you reliably tell the difference? Which guys are just 'going about their day', which are the perverts? My rule of thumb is blokes in women's toilets, changing rooms, etc. shouldn't get the benefit of the doubt.

I would not want to take a wee knowing a man stood near the cubicle could hear everything. It would be embarrassing and uncomfortable.

@Pandaparty so if op thought this then she would have met his 'laser stare' and said something, or at least said something to a member of staff if not comfortable confronting herself. Coming on here two weeks later to moan about it and insinuating it's a whole 'men' problem isn't going to achieve anything. She's just hoping for another pile on of how awful men are thread. This is the reason why we women who want safe spaces are being regarded as right wing loons, because rather than a sensible conversation it becomes them against us. There are circumstances when a father may need to enter female toilets, there are circumstances when a man will innocently be in a lingerie department. If you genuinely think that at the moment you see a situation it's actually genuinely is improper, call it out in the moment.

I used to work in a lingerie department many moons ago. After that experience, I would check very carefully and rarely bought anything that is displayed on a hanger on the shop floor. We used to have to bin stock that had been ejaculated on,it was vile.

As a woman too I know that you can spot a creep, but you can't assume all men are.

No one has ever said all men are. If the creeps were always obvious or were kind enough to wear a badge identifying themselves then we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Until every man who is a threat to women becomes identifiable on sight then I'll continue to assume the worst rather than hope for the best. I prioritise my safety over a man's feelings.

Before you got to the toilet it's highly likely the man had been helping his wife with the two kids going to the toilet. That would just make him thoughtless for not taking the kids outside while she then went.

It was the ladies toilets, he should not have been in there at all. It's funny how the women's toilet becomes the default for anyone who doesn't fancy using the men's. If helping two children go to the toilet required both parents then they could just as easily have used the men's but they didn't and they never do.

It doesn't mean he was hanging around in there to take his spot in a womens space. He was being a father. If he was stood there with no kids you'd have a point, under the circumstances I'd have just said "would you mind waiting with the kids outside ".

I quite honestly don't care what excuse men make for being in the ladies loos, it's entitled behaviour and they need to fuck off. Should every father be allowed to use the ladies loos when they're out with their children regardless of how women feel? Whether he had kids with him or not is irrelevant, it erodes boundaries and normalises behaviour which could then put women at risk. Standing around in a space he had no right to use just shows a complete lack of awareness and respect.

It is not a woman's responsibility to tolerate feeling uncomfortable because a man finds their facilities preferable or more convenient.

I would rather go in the ladies with my DH and kids than the mens where the men are stood in a line with their penis' out , plus the smell (due to urinals) in mens toilets is horrendous. So given the choice of the two, womens every time.

I would rather go in the ladies with my DH and kids than the mens where the men are stood in a line with their penis' out , plus the smell (due to urinals) in mens toilets is horrendous. So given the choice of the two, womens every time.

Leave your husband outside then, you do not have the right to breach other women's boundaries because it's convenient for you. Men NEVER use to go into ladies loos but they've been fathers for as long as the human race has existed.