Men Loitering in Women's Spaces

[Datada]

In the past 2 weeks, l saw a man in a ladies loo, with his family. His wife in a cubicle, him hanging around the sinks with 2 young children. I felt it was an erosion of women's boundaries. There was no need for him to be there, and he felt entitled to be there. When l walked in he didn't bat an eyelid. This was a new level of cheeky fuckery

I had to take a piss and change a tampon with Joe Bloggs standing 2 meters away. I was not comfortable, nor ok with this, and that is my right. l shouldn't have to challenge randomers in my day to day, so l chose not to.

Then last week, a man with his wife in a lingerie dept. l saw him staring at women looking at bras. I was trying to dodge his laser gaze, while trying to find a new bra style. And then thought, fuck this and left. I know a department store is gender neutral, but this guy was a creep. I don't care if a man is buying underwear for himself or his partner, once he is minding his own business and not using the place as fodder for his sexual fantasies.

These heterosexual men now just think it's ok to loiter and look at women in intimate female spaces. Women need a level of comfort and protection just doing daily tasks, this is being erased. Women have a right to privacy. Women need protected spaces.

MOST men are not in the lingerie department to get a cheap thrill

But some are and they don't go around with a sign on their head saying 'pervert'.

My over-riding takeaway from this thread is that you really, really need to be in the lingerie department, Kevin.

You are being utterly ridiculous, and should be ashamed of yourself.

I can’t remember the last time I was in one, I had no idea it was the hang-out for the neurotic and unreasonable.

When there aren't three women being murdered per week, and women's spaces aren't being taken over in droves by very entitled men with a whole host of motives, some more exciting than others, and men aren't wanking into M&S underwear and hanging it back up and boasting about it on social media, and taking tampons out of sanitary bins to push up their bums and gloat about it on social media about how it was still warm and wet from a woman's body, and women weren't being arrested for saying ffs men have no fucking boundaries or care for women and when they may be in a sensitive space where they impact on women...?

Then I'll have the capacity to care about men's feelings.

Until then, frankly, it's their turn.

Oh look, a man has arrived to tell us women we're being ridiculous

Well, here you are - on Mumsnet, no less!! - vociferously and repeatedly insisting on your need to be there. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I agree with the OP, men should get TF out of womens’ spaces. No excuses. I will challenge every case I see.

I think this one needs his camera roll checking.

It seems to me these were different issues?

The father with the kids seems mainly clueless, which is maybe a reflection of a change in cultural boundaries, or just utter cluelessness. It doesn't seem to have some kind of sexual element.

The creepy guy with the bras is a different story. Quite likely a creep, though I by no means think creep radars are full proof. They can also easily be triggered by people who seem unusual for other reasons. The location is an element in that it can attract creeps, but also make women more inclined to guess someone is a creep. But in general it's not a private woman's space, and it's not unheard of for a man to be there with his wife and to feel uncomfortable, which can look creepy.

The thing is, many women’s default setting is to be on alert, and many times, their creep warning will flash, probably unnecessarily.

This is life. It just is. And men have NO IDEA what it’s like for many women. Not the first clue.

I’m one of the lucky ones - I’m not overly wary of men as I have no particular reason to be, in that I’m surrounded by good men who have better things to do than hang about on MN and I haven’t had any really bad experiences at their hands (countless low level unwelcome and unwanted experiences, of course, as most women have).

I just find it incredible that men come onto a site overwhelmingly populated by women, repeatedly insist on their right to be in a place that sells goods expressly for women - and expect to be respected for that.

Do what you want. You’re a man coming onto a woman’s website - you clearly will do that, you don’t need me to tell you.

But do not expect many, many, many of us to like it, want it, or respect you for it.

Remember that the next time you’re browsing the lingeries rails, selecting that gift for your, ahem, lucky wife.