LGB Alliance to plan helpline with Lottery funding

[pombear]

Fantastic news.

I would link to their Twitter announcement, but in usual state of play, Twitter has marked it ' may not be appropriate for people under 18'. A helpline planned for 13 to 25 year olds, planned by a panel of experts in child protection, education, helpline delivery, fundraising and psychology.

Yep - shut them down (much better to have helplines planned by IT workers who took their child to Thailand...)

As LGB Alliance state there is no dedicated national service of its kind for young LGB people in the UK.

I'm sure the Lottery Fund will be getting a lot of feedback right now, given the outpouring of hyperbole against LGB Alliance right now on Twitter.

So they may appreciate feedback from those who may see this as a positive move too:

""We really value your feedback. If you have a comment or complaint about the services that we provide, or if there's something important you think we should know, we'd love to hear it. Please email us at [email protected]"

So the question is really:

Do you support homophobia and forced redefinition of the term homosexual?

Do you support conversion therapy or exclusion and punishment for homosexuals who don't comply and who want to be homosexual based on sex alone?

Do you support the denial of a voice or representation to homosexuals who are not compliant with the TQ+ political movement?

Or are you being a useful idiot to a political lobby without fully understanding what it is that lobby is really doing to people beneath the glitter and marketing about 'love' and 'tolerance'?

and I have explained many times about "minds and bodies not matching up."

You haven't @starlee - not coherently. Can you answer yes/no: When you say 'minds and bodies not matching up' do you simply mean 'they are unhappy with their bodies'? *What would a matching mind and body be"?

I really don't know what to make of your paragraph:
"You also said "many trans people describe themselves [ as 'having the wrong body, because your kind of true self/soul/personality is only ever found in other types of body'] , as is their right." ."
I can't make any sense of that at all, some of the words are mine (as in ""many trans people describe themselves as 'having the wrong body, as is their right,") but you added a few words of your own (as in "because your kind of true self/soul/personality is only ever found in other types of body") which makes no sense and so the whole paragraph is just a mess of unconnected comments and inexplicably placed punctuation marks!

That just demonstrates that you haven't been following what you yourself have been writing.
I tried to condense the post so it wasn't an endless list of quoted posts as it makes it unreadable. I asked whether the bit in square brackets was true and you said many trans people describe themselves [like this], as is their right.

I am talking about one individual who feels they were "born in the wrong body", who feels they, singular, do not match their own body,

And can you please answer yes/no - when you said all the above - the several claims you made that I copied and posted in one post - in plural (words like "they" "Trans people" "many") - are you honestly saying now that you were talking about one individual?

Do you now see why you are not making sense? You are not posting honestly.

Gender dysphoria and Body Dysmorphia are 2 different things, you're getting them very confused.

This is entirely my point. You backtracked repeatedly on the 'matching up' comment, as you don't think there is any such thing as minds matching bodies now - and you are now saying all it means is they are uncomfortable with their bodies, which is body dysmorphia.

You seem quite muddled between the two but I can see that any attempts to unpick what you think gender dysphoria is - and why you seemingly think that's synonymous with being trans, which many trans people disagree with - are going to fail because you cannot explain what you mean by minds and bodies matching.

I can only ask one more time:
I have explained this many times. I am talking about one individual who feels they were "born in the wrong body", who feels they, singular, do not match their own body

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? Explain what you understand by it. Explain what a 'match' would be - to you - and what a mismatch is. Otherwise you are using words that you do not understand and expect me to know what it means just by repeating the word 'match'.

I have no concept of what a 'mind' (or soul or whatever) MATCHING a body is.
It's like asking if your race matches your skin colour. Or your height matching your weight. Minds and bodies are different things. If you think there are ways in which they can match - be the same, align, whatever - I am asking you to explain that.

Labels are defined in law but there is no law to say which sex or gender you can be attracted to or not, you are free to fancy who you like, age restrictions and familial relationships allowing of course.

That's actually correct! Now can you think of any existing laws where sex and sexuality might be relevant? And then can you work out why correct definitions are necessary?

@Starlee the link you provided keeps saying
For transgender and some gender-diverse people, their gender identity doesn't match the sex that they were assigned at birth

It does not explain what a sex matching a gender means.

I'll ask you an example question: does "female" sex at birth match with "woman" gender in your opinion? How do you define woman gender? ("Define" means describe its unique properties).

Thirty-six pages on, and the bottom line for me is still that gay men, lesbians and bisexual people have every right to organise around issues that affect them, and every right to offer services and support to other gay, lesbian and bisexual people, including younger people.

If you oppose that, then you are a homophobe. There's no way around that.

Amen to that, @ArcheryAnnie.

That. ^^

What @ArcheryAnnie said.

So you think all trans people are asexual?

So you think all trans people are asexual?
No, I don't at all.

You can tell what I think by the words I say I think, not by words you make up that are different and mean different things.

If you are agender, the gender you are attracted to (if any) can be neither the same nor different as your own, because you don't have one.

Btw starlee do you just log on and spot a post from the day before/before then reply to that individually, then read the next one and reply to that etc?
You won't get the full thread of the discussion that way - just picking individual posts out of context - as can be seen by the very bizarre misinterpretation of my post that you demonstrated.

It's general forum etiquette on MN to read the full thread before posting, as you'll see on most other long-running threads.

I'm sure you'll think this is an awful thing to suggest, but it's in the spirit of not duplicating posts or creating extremely long quote threads, and keeping to the Talk guidelines.

And that is absolute rubbish, all in you imagination, homosexual people are the same as they've always been, they haven't changed and no-one is telling them they must.

Quit with the gaslighting.
Young lesbians are being told that people with a penis should be included in their sexuality.
That's not lesbianism. It's guilt tripping young vulnerable L people and you know it.

^ woah sorry, replying to a post really far back there...!

"The whole reason you joined this thread (remember what the thread is actually about?) is to say that you don't believe homosexual people should be allowed an organisation or representation of their own because to do so is hostile to TQ+ people, and they should not be allowed to run a helpline to talk to gay kids in case they mishandle a TQ+ one. So yes, you are insisting that homosexual people must not be allowed to organise."
No that's not what I said. Being bisexual I have no objection to an LGB helpline, but I do object to a helpline run by a transphobic organisation that Bev Jackson states was set up to oppose "damaging theory of gender identity". Hardly unbiased.

"And that isn't because of T people, because 30-40 years ago when I was going to Pride there were plenty of T people there."
Yet how many times have people here denied that trans people have ever had anything to do with LGB people and that's why the T should be removed?

"The LGBA only has to exist to be intolerable to TQ+ politics."
No, The LGBA only has to open its mouth to talk about "TRAs" to be intolerable to the majority of LGBTQ+ people. The LGBA don't speak for all LGB people, they certainly don't speak for me.

"saying 'but if you only knew a T person like I do....' which in effect adds, (you'd let me be homophobic and shove you out of your own organisation without arguing about it, while activisting to stop you setting up something else of your own where you'd be allowed to exist in peace too.)"
Is that your personal experience, is that what YOU mean when you say "I have no problem at all with T people, I have T friends, I've been part of groups with T people since my teens"?

If you can't understand what I'm saying try reading the NHS explanation instead. I'm sick of answering the same thing over and over.
Gender dysphoria is a term that describes a sense of unease that a person may have because of a mismatch between their biological sex and their gender identity.

And because you confuse gender dysphoria with body dysmorphia you could read this from the NHS too Body dysmorphic disorder (BDD), or body dysmorphia, is a mental health condition where a person spends a lot of time worrying about flaws in their appearance. These flaws are often unnoticeable to others.

"[ as 'having the wrong body, because your kind of true self/soul/personality is only ever found in other types of body'] ,"

You think that makes sense? 😂
Maybe you should have left the posts as they were instead of tying to condense them because you have just made them unreadable and not making any sense at all.
And ME not posting honestly? Don't make me laugh, I posted honestly but you've chopped and changed and condensed my words while adding some of your own and not differentiation between them, now that's dishonest!

If you don't understand what the NHS are saying perhaps you should ask them? I've wasted more than enough time trying to explain to you.

I have never opposed that. Why would I oppose an organisation that wants to support people like me? What I DO oppose is a transphobic organisation whose founder stated was actually set up to oppose "the damaging theory of gender identity." They cannot be trusted to offer unbiased help.
You might find this an interesting read Uncovered: LGB Alliance

Why are you bringing 'agender' into this? I thought it was a typo, like a lot of the stuff you're coming out with. 🙄

What I DO oppose is a transphobic organisation whose founder stated was actually set up to oppose "the damaging theory of gender identity." They cannot be trusted to offer unbiased help.

The theory of gender identity is damaging to homosexuals.

@Starlee I could post repeatedly on every page of this thread that I am the reincarnation of Napoleon. That wouldn't make it true. Too many of us know the LGB Alliance too well to know the stuff you are constantly repeating about them is nonsense.

Your continued attempts to trash them is homopbobia, pure and simple.

"continued attempts to trash them is homopbobia, pure and simple"

The LGBA and supporters' continued attempts to trash Stonewall is transphobic, pure and simple.

DeaconBoo the reason why Starlee is frustrating you is because they are unable to explain what minds and bodies matching is.. You'll never actually get a description because as soon as one is attempted, the rank sexism is exposed.

Actually describing thoughts, feelings or characteristics that advocates of transgenderism believe should be attributed to each sex doesn't happen.

It would have to follow mundane, old fashioned sexist stereotypes. So they don't do it. You'll just get the woolly terms like 'mismatched'. The same way they cant describe the word woman in TWAW.

Starlee's constant self contradiction and wriggling like a fish on a hook is indicative of their cognitive dissonance, not yours.

Hence you never getting the answer you seek.