Waitrose delivery driver

[MsMoorhead]

Kellie Jay-Keen reported by her Waitrose delivery driver!

Is there anywhere I can see what Waitrose or the delivery driver has said?
I like to see both sides of stories.
same and would like to read the other side too

Margarita Pie, there are memorable occasions where you have posted a link when it hasn't said what you've claimed it to state so it's very encouraging to read your scrupulous fairness to assess both sides in this incident. It also puts you alongside the journalistic standards of OJ in his desire to learn the 'other side of the story' from the 60+ (?) girls who were reported to have passionately expressed their disapprobation of the young woman at the heart of a recent school incident.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550971-times-girl-driven-out-of-school-for-questioning-trans-ideology

However, unless you know the Waitrose driver, I should think that there are currently no primary sources beyond KJK's account. As you may have gathered, Discovereads' summaries are not to be relied upon as they inserted details that can not be verified.

You and Janet might need to stay your curiosity until such time as KJK reports back on any response from Waitrose.

I am confident, however, that should you discover a primary source of evidence, you will link us into it in a timely manner.

"I should think that there are currently no primary sources beyond KJK's account"

Then IMO it would be wise to refrain from judgement until if/when more info becomes available.

Are we expecting the driver to come forward and identify driverself now?

Knowing your posting history that's the funniest thing I've read all day, or were you attempting irony?

I thought the good ladies of MN might be amused by this description of what we've been discussing:

twitter.com/LGBwiththeT/status/1535185127407505414

That sentence structure is something to behold!

This is not a court of law?

Why do you care what we discuss and how we discuss it?

It's a rhetorical question, I already know.

No. Not Intimidation. No, because you can be assertive without verbally abusing someone.

why did you repeatedly say the driver was not inside her property but outside on the step as if that made a difference?

Because her video is vague on that point, because other posters said the driver was on the doorstep and because I get Waitrose deliveries weekly and since Covid to two days ago they’ve been outside/wearing gloves and not coming in.

The tweet isn’t wrong.

@Discovereads

No. Not Intimidation. No, because you can be assertive without verbally abusing someone.

Arguably asking about the sign was inappropriate behaviour. It certainly was if he was planning on challenging her on her political beliefs in her own home. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Arguing about politics on her property. A massive no, and Waitrose should discipline him and re-train him. Talking like he did about her daughter. Refusing to leave immediately. Worse again.

We don't know whether this was doorstep, but I expect it was inside. It doesn't really matter but KJK is even more justified if it happened in her house.

Either way he had done at least three things that lost him all right to be treated with respect. Customers are not obliged to be professional, that's the employee's job. Customers are obliged to treat staff with respect, but not after the employee has behaved deeply inappropriately.

We also only know one side, other than it is certain KJK expressed her views and used swear words to ask him to leave. There is no point debating the story unless we trust KJKs account. Obviously if the truth turns out to be different then we'll have to re-appraise, but I have no reason to doubt her.

She should have complained about him immediately if her account is true. How might he be with other customers?

She should have complained about him immediately if her account is true
How might he be with other customers

I kind of agree, then I think of all the things that happened to me and I never bothered reporting because
Will I be believed?
It will take up a lot of time to not be believed.
Is it worth it, will anything change by my complaint?
Dont want people to lose jobs.
And some other reasons I'm too drunk and menopausal to remember.

Great post 👏

You've cut down the quote and twisted it so the meaning is changed, that doesn't answer the question I asked. I'd be interested in whether or not you'd amend your response, and if not why did you repeatedly say the driver was not inside her property but outside on the step as if that made a difference? Surely the fact you kept asserting no he wasn't in her house but outside on the step means you acknowledged where he was when he declared he'd take his time was relevant. If he was on her doorstep she could simply shut the door in his face, if he was inside her home she couldn't.

Absolutely nailed it!

@GCRich
I think this is the most balanced and reasonable post I’ve seen from you on this thread. I agree with most of what you said.

My only issue is that the three things you mentioned that the delivery driver did to lose “all right to be treated with respect” did not happen before KJK treated her disrespectfully. They happened as reactions to being treated disrespectfully; starting with the deliberate misgendering of calling her a man and telling her to stay out of womens spaces.

So I think we need to keep in mind that the delivery driver was provoked into what they said which in turn provoked KJK.

@Discovereads no. You are wrong. KJK said she was polite until he said he liked sharing changing rooms and toilets with teenage girls like her daughter. Then she was rude and likely swore, ordering him off her property.

Oh that’s why I’m confused. I cut and past that but because I’d answered no to the amend my response bit but after posting realised the “and if not why” then applied so I still owed you an answer.

I did not even think about the relevancy of where she was when she said I’ll take my time.

I know she said that later on in the video, but that’s one of the places where she changes her story. If you listen to her first account, where she goes through a blow by blow retelling of the delivery driver said x, I said y. It is very plain that kJK misgenders her, calls her a man and tells her to stay out of womens spaces before there is any mention of her daughter.

It is well accepted that it is rude to misgender a trans person. The tribunal judgement I posted concluded that GC believers cannot misgender transpeople “with impunity” and that “calling a transwoman a man may be unlawful harrassment” So KJK calling her man was rude and disrespectful at the least. In addition, launching into demanding a transwomen not use womens spaces was starting a political argument.

@Discovereads I did not even think about the relevancy of where she was when she said I’ll take my time. sorry that doesn't make sense. Why would you refer to the driver being on the doorstep if it had no relevance, why would you even dispute the driver was in her house, which you did more than once? If you can't see that anybody not immediately complying with an instruction to exit from somebody's house is even worse than not leaving their doorstep, then we obviously have very different safeguards.

I’m very facts based. Her video is vague, other posters before me said the driver was on the doorstep, my Waitrose deliveries have all been doorstep since covid…so I honestly thought the posts saying the delivery driver was in KJKs house were factually incorrect and so I chimed in on the side of the other posters saying doorstep. I now admit that’s not a 100% certain fact like I thought it was. But that’s it. You’re reading too much into it.

I’m very facts based You’re reading too much into it. That's your view. I'd feel far more threatened by a male person (even if that person 'identified' as a woman) inside my home than one who was outside my front door who could be effectively barred by slamming the door shut. I'm very fact based too, I understand that sex is binary and immutable. No person on this earth has ever changed their sex. Any 'declaration' that somebody has changed from a man to a woman or vice versa is pure fantasy. My niece insisted she was a horse........ nobody suggested a stable and nosebag........she was 4 at the time .....

@Greencoatblue

That's your view.

I think I know myself and what I’m thinking or not thinking better than you do!

I'm very fact based too

Glad to hear it.

I am confident, however, that should you discover a primary source of evidence, you will link us into it in a timely manner.
Yes, I will, as I said I find it important to know both sides and always have

What a fatuous statement, but you do you. Shame you don't seem able to acknowledge that sex is immutable, so your male born delivery driver is still a male. He can think himself a woman, a crab or a cabbage, his chromosomes, even a 100 years after his death will still identify him as a male of the human species. I like to imagine myself as a gorgeous, toned bodied, slim, unwrinkled beauty...... the mirror has the unfortunate habit of disillusioning me.....but in your world my fantasy is truth?