Fionne Orlander has had genital surgery

[Pluvia]

On the NHS at an expensive London clinic.

twitter.com/FionneOrlander/status/1534471741531115520

I've appreciated and followed him on Twitter for years and know how bad the dysphoria is and yet my heart sinks that even someone as thoughtful and articulate as him thinks that this will solve anything.

That explains it @nightwakingmoon.

So I'm leaving MN. It's no longer a place for GC feminists. I moved here when GC on Reddit got banned. I guess I'll just stick with my subscription to the Glimmer substack. Good luck ladies.

See you in Flouncer's Corner!

Is that verboten word about what a vet does to surgically 'reconstruct' the genitals of a bull? However, strangely the farming community recognises this animal as still a male animal - a bullock (simply a bull sans bolleaux) and not a heifer (female which only called a cow when it has a calf).

@DrDetriment yeah, with that and the dreadful site update, it’s feeling pretty hostile and unwieldy on here these days. Guidelines for civil debate and not using offensive terms are one thing.

But siding with the ideological opinions of people who want existing medical practice and established terminology to be erased, to reflect their own ideas of reality, is just wrong, I think. (I’ve made this point too on another current thread about the banning of another innocuous word which is is no way offensive).

I think this represents a significant ideological bias or overreach on the part of either MN as a whole — or particular mods. It’s not their job to be siding with one ideology as a mod, whatever their own opinions; and if that’s happening, then they aren’t doing their job as moderators on a discussion forum.

Or, if MN is making a general policy of allowing not objectively offensive, even factual, comments to be deleted, but purely in the service of an ideology which finds actual fact either too inconvenient or too revealing to its cause — then we need to press this all the more.

If some facts are too “triggering” to be aired, then that is a key indicator that there is something there that people are afraid of being revealed by too much scientific and psychiatric fact, and too much examination and sunlight. The quickest way to conceal something is to try to get it deleted as “offensive”. Paradoxically, though, that draws attention to it all the more.

If gender dysphoria isn’t a psychiatric condition (despite being treated as such by standard psychiatric practice), then what happens to all the claims that expensive medical, psychiatric and surgical “treatment” (on the NHS) is necessary to prevent suicide and so on? If it’s just an “identity”, then it’s a choice and a politics and doesn’t require any treatment of any kind.

Public “bekind” sympathy rests ONLY on the idea that gender dysphoria is a terrible, debilitating psychiatric condition. If it’s not, then it doesn’t require any treatment, any surgery, any “rights” or protection at all.

Be careful what you wish for.

Sorry Tinsel, that was a genuine old fashioned use of the word 'they' for someone I don't know. It was not at all a nod to his gender identity. Apologies for not spotting it and correcting myself.

Not even that! No, nowadays you can be deleted for suggesting that gender dysphoria is a mental health condition. My message from MN stated that my similar post to @DrDetriment was deleted because of:

“The reference to gender dysphoria as a psychological illness which is inaccurate and offensive.”

This is despite it being listed as such in the DSM-V; and, as this whole thread demonstrates, many many trans people like Fionne Orlander openly talking about their gender dysphoria in the terms of it being a debilitating mental illness.

Can you tell I’m annoyed? Yes, I’m annoyed. This is MN deletion policy pandering to a specific ideology which is not only averse to medical fact, but completely inconsistent with itself.

Oh and I’m going to keep on talking about this because those of us who use MN should know if it’s being inconsistently or inaccurately modded — especially if it’s not according with their own talk guidelines — and be able to discuss it.

especially if it’s not according with their own talk guidelines

biscuit….just sayin’ 😒

I hope the best for anyone who, as a mature adult, decides they want to go through significant surgery. I hope Fionne makes a good recovery

@RufustheFloralmissingreindeer biscuit?

Mumsnet has no pretence of not being ideological in its moderation. I'm not consistently active enough on these fast moving threads to be certain about exactly where they currently stand on sex and gender, but there are very clear ideological positions driving the moderation elsewhere on the site. They are anything but disinterested, fair, objective, etc.

@mnhq

@nightwakingmoon Asks a very fair question. Is this something that’s not allowed to be talked about, for no good reason that I can see, creating irrational ‘secret’ rules we have to abide by?

Second that. Fionne always strikes me as a decent, gentle soul who's taken a lot of shit from TRAs.

Yep

biscuit means no comment on all boards except this one, its a deletable offence on FWR

(ok as far as i know it only happened once but I’m not letting it go)

Ah - yep 😂

This says what I'd want to say.

I hope Fionne finds some peace.