Helen Joyce/Helen Staniland "Trans Elimination" video

[momentsinthewind]

I've just seen a video on YouTube with HJ and HS and HJ is saying that we need to return to a sane world and everyone who has transitioned is damaged and will need special accommodation (detransition treatment?) in the future.

I'm GC and have many concerns about safe spaces and sport etc, but this just seems to be going too far.

I found it quite upsetting if I'm honest.

We are saying if there was less transphobia around more people would be interested in dating trans people of their own free will.

And again you are casually using ‘transphobia’ here as a reason people aren’t in sexual relationships with others.

You are again basing your claims on an ill formed premise.

It might shock you, but there are quite a lot of people who are happy to date trans people at the moment - trans people are not all single you know.

Excellent. Glad to hear that people find happiness. However, as a parent of a teen, I have also witnessed the pressure teens put on each other that saying no to ‘girldick’ is transphobic and I am very well aware of the anxiety that this causes teenagers.

Perhaps you are unaware of this happening. However, I have seen in in action and I believe it is incredibly coercive.

And if there were less transphobes out there, there would be even more people dating trans people. Simple

And again, you are once again attributing people’s sexual boundaries as ‘transphobic’. You are directly attributing it and yet you try to hide the fact that you are. Is it that you are so far entrenched that you cannot hear what you saying?

Transohobia? What you are seeing is people, both sexes, all sexualities, having preferences when it comes to sexual partners. Not fancying a man / woman presenting as female / male, with or without any surgery, is not a political choice, not a phobia, it is a sexual preference. Any attempt to persuade them otherwise carries connotations if forced sex, rape.

Yes, there are people who want to date transwomen, transmen, that is a choice anyone is free to make... or not, as the case may be.

Your inference that sexual preferences can be hate crimes is ludicrous. Think it through.

More to the point, people on this thread quite clearly do not like trans people so the concern about their dating lives is all crocodile tears.

It is also quite clear that you have your own prejudice about posters on this board.

Many posters have trans people in their daily lives and of course, they have concerns.

It is also very clear that you have a very polarised view. Your framing seems to be very absolutist and very ‘us and then’. Readers reading along will also be picking this up.

People on this thread are here to defend Helen Joyce who believes all trans people are a "huge problem to a sane world". Obviously, they dislike trans people. They believe they are "huge problems".

Who like a problem?

People are entitled to have sex with who they want.

And if there was less transphobia is society I have no doubt more people would date trans people.

Hardly controversial.

People are entitled to whatever sexual boundaries they want.

People are also entitled to point out that trans people encounter an awful lot of transphobia and hatred in the dating world.

These two statements are not contradictory.

The problem with so many Gender Critical people is they try to foist their own boundaries on people who accept trans people. e.g. They express outrage at a gay man dating a trans man or a lesbian dating a trans woman.

No one has to hand in their gay card when they date a trans person no matter how much it might upset GCs.

if there was less transphobia is society I have no doubt more people would date trans people

Well. There we go.

It's good to get these views out clear and in the open.

If you are not attracted to trans people you are, according to this poster, 'transphobic'.

Perhaps I should clarify the language here to "People are entitled to have sex only with people they want and also want them back." Just so no one is in any doubt about the meaning of my comment.

No one has to hand in their gay card when they date a trans person

How very fucking glib. Also, I do hate these coy euphemisms. 'Dating', indeed. We're talking about sexual orientations.

People are entitled to have sex with who they want.

Precisely - please tell that to the biological males trying to coerce young lesbians into having sex with them, also called the 'cotton ceiling'.

People are perfectly entitled to say they want to date someone of a specific biological sex, not of a chosen gender. They do not have to agree with anyones identity or view of themselves. It's called boundaries.

People are also entitled to point out that trans people encounter an awful lot of transphobia and hatred in the dating world.

Disagreement is not hatred. Gender identity ideology is a belief system, which I don't ascribe to. Someone else is perfectly entitled to view themselves as they wish, but I don't have to agree, and I am entitled to that view. Are you phobic and hateful for not agreeing with gender critical views? No.

To what extent should other people be compelled to participate in your world view, or your self image? It's a very narcissistic demand.

No one should force anyone to have sex with them if they don't want them to.

I would add that trans people are disproportionately impacted but sexual violence (mostly because of cisgender people) and as you're all obsessed with trans people you should care more about that.

"Transgender people in England and Wales are twice as likely to be victims of crime as cisgender people, official figures show."

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jul/17/trans-people-twice-as-likely-to-be-victims-of-in-england-and-wales

Transphobia is so out of control in modern Britain that people are spitting at and refusing help from this paramedic because she is trans.

Very sad indeed.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-61745903

'Dating' is not a euphemism it is a very common verb.

People on this thread are here to defend Helen Joyce who believes all trans people are a "huge problem to a sane world". Obviously, they dislike trans people. They believe they are "huge problems".

You have a very simplistic and very entrenched view.

Can you explain why anyone would consider putting any male into a female prison as not being a significant issue that a sane solution that meets the needs of females and males needs to be found for?

And the same for males seeking access into female sports categories?

These are ‘huge’ problems for the females who are impacted by these issues. Or are you determined to minimise the impact on them?

They are ‘huge’ problems in both the vastness of impact - world wide. And in impact on the lives of those females impacted.

But do keep on with the deliberate misrepresentation of what Helen said. Just as you misrepresent the impact of the conflicts of another groups claims for rights over those rights protecting females.

No you are right. If a gay man dates a pre op transwoman, which is the kind of transperson a gay man would of all the kinds of transpeople
there are, match more with his sexual orientation, then that would be same sex attraction. There are very very few gay men who would date a pre op transman, or even a post op transman, as transmen are female and gay men are homosexuals. They date males. With penises. If transwomen are looking for love, why not date straight women or bisexual or gay men and leave lesbians alone. Lesbians don’t do penises. Love, a lesbian

"Transgender people in England and Wales are twice as likely to be victims of crime as cisgender people, official figures show."

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jul/17/trans-people-twice-as-likely-to-be-victims-of-in-england-and-wales

A) it's the Guardian and b) ow many of those reports of trans crime will be stickers and ribbons and women handing out leaflets? Friends of mine politely handing out Women's Rights Network leaflets one Saturday in the town centre were reported to the police by a TRA who accused them of hate crime and said he felt threatened by their presence. TRAs have cried wolf so often that no one takes them seriously any more.

It's not misrepresentation to say anyone who thinks an ENTIRE group in society is a "huge problem" is speaking from a place of bigotry.

All sorts of different groups have certain specific requirements e.g. Jews and Muslim kids at school require Kosher and Halal food. Lesbians receive IVF treatment in order to have a family. Buildings are designed to accommodate people who use wheelchairs etc.

All of those groups have been perceived as "problems" with unreasonable demands by prejudiced people over the years. Joyce's outrage is hardly a surprise to those of us study history.

Clearly you don't know much about the lives of trans people if you think they do not experience sexual violence and crime disproportionately to cisgender people.

"Transgender people are over four times more likely than cisgender people to experience violent victimization, including rape, sexual assault, and aggravated or simple assault, according to a new study by the Williams Institute at UCLA School of Law."

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/ncvs-trans-press-release/

Where's your evidence they do not?

There are not many straight women would not date a trans woman because they are sexually attracted to men. This should be obvious.

All sorts of different groups have certain specific requirements e.g. Jews and Muslim kids at school require Kosher and Halal food. Lesbians receive IVF treatment in order to have a family. Buildings are designed to accommodate people who use wheelchairs etc.

And exactly what is the negative impact on the rights of females do any of those examples have.

Are you fucking serious?

The provision of halal and kosher food is merely an extension of the type of food already provided. It doesn’t mean that vegans needs directly impacted. It is a reasonable adjustment.

But yes…. A female being housed in a prison cell with a male is just like that!

A Completely proportionate example!

All of those groups have been perceived as "problems" with unreasonable demands by prejudiced people over the years. Joyce's outrage is hardly a surprise to those of us study history.

please provide us with evidence that provision of Halal and Kosher meals along with other meals was considered a ‘huge problem’.

There are not many straight women would not date a trans woman because they are sexually attracted to men. This should be obvious.

Either you need to recast your sentence or you've just claimed that 'few women would not date a TW because they are sexually attracted to men'.

There are not many straight women would not date a trans woman because they are sexually attracted to men. This should be obvious.

So you agree that transwomen are men. I disagree with your statement that it's obvious that most straight women would date transwomen. Many of us prefer men who don't think they are women or want to be women.

There are not many straight women would not date a trans woman because they are sexually attracted to men. This should be obvious
Exactly this, I'm straight
Attracted to men.
So why would I be attracted to trans women?
I fancy masculinity, not femininity.

"please provide us with evidence that provision of Halal and Kosher meals along with other meals was considered a ‘huge problem’."

Always happy to help:

"Thousands of Muslims are expected to boycott school meals in a county after its council became Britain's first to ban halal beef and lamb from unstunned animals.

"Some 27 schools across Lancashire serve meat from halal suppliers that do not stun animals before slaughter, including Church of England and Catholic schools.

"But the county council's Conservative leader Geoff Driver proposed a ban, calling the practice an 'abhorrent' one that causes animals unnecessary stress and pain."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5023145/Council-faces-Muslim-boycott-school-meals-halal-row.html