Non-binary debate in Westminster

[tabbycatstripy]

On now. I don’t know who this guy is who is speaking but he’s just said, “It ain’t fair and it’s not right” and he is a LEGEND.

Watch and comment!

I think the Obama administration was responsible for TWAW policy, some of which Trump reversed

Yes I think he was, but I do remember his reaction was a little like taking to a 3 yr old about whether it was actually possibly to fly.

Well this sounded like a colossal waste of time. None of them appear to know what they are talking about (perhaps with the exception of Cates).

It's hardly surprising though as there is no coherent definition of non binary. It's just something that means whatever an individual wants it to mean which is hardly a basis for good law.

The weather definitely has an effect. On certain more fluid days, I take the non-binary umbrella out for a whirl.

Having thought about it, Ova, it was actually very instructive. Although not in a good way:

Mike Freer, Conservative, spokesperson for the Govt:

'single sex spaces must be retained'.

A few minutes later -

Mike Freer, Conservative, spokesperson for the Govt:

'trans people have for many years accessed single sex spaces in their 'acquired gender' and the Gov have no wish to curtail this.'

It's the Labour Oxymoron. Pure Doublespeak.

It confirms that we can trust absolutely nobody on this issue.

Dodds was confused and weak. I think part of her problem [besides not understanding the issues] is she has to worry about the significant
GC faction amongst Labour MPs, most of whom won't say much in public but will speak out privately, and the other Labour faction who are full on TRA. So Labour is adrift.

The Tories mostly coherent except Freer. I think it is positive that some understand a lot of the issues, using stuff GC women have been putting out and also clearly have had a lot of people writing in. However no-one really wanted to talk much about non binary as others said which is a pity as it would have been rather funny. However whatever Tory MPs say the civil service is doing all sorts of random stuff.

Clearly the SNP are going to go full ahead with their take on gender including potentially NB which is going to cause ructions.

As someone said MPs can now be searched for as non binary via the Parliament website, BUT no-one in government knows what it means and can explains WHY this set of socially created ideas about gender needs recognition and others do not?

We have slow capture of institutions here.

So is non binary a gender identity or a non sex because from that debate it seems to be both? Your sex marker can't be non binary you are male or female. Also if non binary is accepted as a gender identity then what about the hundreds of other genders; agender, cat gender, fuck gender, gender fluid. What will they get on a passport. Will it be like that trans/gender fluid police person who has two ID passes.

AD rambled on so much about intersex/DSD making sure she said every 2 mins I know others will use different language. Now I have no doubt that there may be some DSD people who identify as non binary but I doubt it has anything to do with their medical condition. I have no respect for her, she makes an absolute mockery of feminism.

Interesting that a civil servant changed pregnant mother to pregnant people in the bill that the MP there had said had been changed without his knowledge and that he will try and get that changed. Who do these civil servants think they are,? I think his points on language were good. Cates did a good job of reminding people about facts.

Also let's remember that some non binary girls will have their breasts chopped off so being non binary is not medically neutral.

He is my MP, I have spent considerable time with him explaining the issues :)

AnotherDayAnotherView

Very good!

Who was it?

Also let's remember that some non binary girls will have their breasts chopped off so being non binary is not medically neutral.

If I were in parliament, I would table two debates on nonbinary. The first on legal issues (as I think this was supposed to be) and the second on social/medical/cultural implications. Both of them might be interesting, or at least entertaining.

Well we have the eunuch problem now too. Look forward to that debate.

Some Labour MP (male) has just tweeted out a load of mantras in relation to this, TWAW, TMAM & NBAV. Also something about NB people need rights.

What rights do they believe they don't they have? I know they want to put an X on official documents but what else do they want?

Also what is 'valid' when put into legal terms/legislation? How exactly do you express 'validity' in law?

It's all such a nonsense.

I quietly do my bit 😉

I think the problem non-binary people have with getting Jobs in the catering industry is because of all the piercings.
When I worked in the food industry I had to wear a retainer for my septum ring.
perhaps someone should give them a heads-up on that point so that we can have a truly inclusive and diverse catering Industry in all of Europe?

it could also be the hair, though. You have to wear a ponytail or a hairnet. Don’t think the colour has much to say 🧐

well. That’s them sorted! What’snext?

oh, yes; I’m binary almost every day, but mainly when I sleep. So it is hard to say when it kicks in, but if the pollen count is such a strong influence I will have to shut the window at night.

Debate transcript is now available for those who prefer to read

hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2022-05-23/debates/040FB4A1-8C3F-4F03-BB10-29FD4A6E24FE/LegalRecognitionOfNon-BinaryGenderIdentities

NBs on Twitter are not happy at all.

Nick Fletcher. I’m sure I don’t agree with him on everything but he spoke well.

There's always the Indiana Pi Bill as some kind of precedent (though it didn't quite manage to pass into law).

Good blog on the debate concentrating on the legal implications (and a handy explanation of Westminster Hall debates!)
www.conservativesforwomen.org/non-binary-gender-identities

NBs on Twitter are not happy at all.

I'm not being funny, but were they before?

I don’t know how widespread this is but I have seen non binary being almost a ‘starter’ identity before the person then starts identifying as the opposite sex.

If this is the case we need to take great care to handle it appropriately. as some have observed, it is not medically neutral as particularly for females it seems to require testosterone and surgery.

I'm not being funny, but were they before?

You are funny though

I've sent thank you postcards to the 3 MPs. I put a The Famous Artist Birdy Rose 'Puberty is not a Medical Condition' sticker on each and wrote woman =adult human female on the front. I've sent them to the House of Commons, not their constituencies.
I'm grateful they took the time out to debate this issue.