Daughter dating transboy

[JustFrustrated]

I'm putting it in here, because whilst I am needing relationship advice....it's not that simple.

This might be long, and I'm on the app so if there are formatting issues I apologise

So my daughter is "dating a trans boy".

DD (13) asked me 3/4 months ago if she could "go out" with a boy in her school.
I asked the usual questions, how old is he, is he your year group, what do you like about him etc. I agreed they could "date".

This is all in ".." because whilst they say they're boyfriend/girlfriend they're far more akin to just being best friends, they hang out, talk etc. But haven't kissed or anything. They may have held hands.

In the time they've been together they've spent lots of time outside of school together, as in one weekend day together at either his or our house.
They've been away with his Mom, sisters and sister's boyfriend to their holiday cottage just up the road, and I've taken them both to a concert and to some theme parks etc. I've very much kept this at "treat it like any other friendship". I remember being their age. I also know my daughter, she's smart (like I'm not just saying this, she's genuinely incredibly academically smart) she's a sensible girl.
Having met his family (mom, older sister and younger sister) they all seem like good people. His mum works in a very serious profession, the registered body kind of profession. His dad died when he was still in primary school.

He seems like a perfectly normal, polite boy. I even said to my DD that it would be nice if she maintained this friendship regardless of their relationship status as he is nice, his family is nice. We all want our kids to have good friends around right?

They were at ours at the weekend and it came out that "he" is actually "she" as in, sex = girl, gender = boy

Now. To clarify. I couldn't give two shiny shits if DD is a lesbian, literally wouldn't bother me at all. My brother is gay, and him and his partner are welcomed with open arms by me and the entire extended family. She knows this. She knows I fired a member of staff that I otherwise adored for a homophobic comment - no hesitation. So she knows my line on that.

However, I'm a big big believer in sex matters. That gender is a construct etc. I'll keep my opinions on that to myself and away from her going forwards.

But I'm so fucking angry. I'm angry that his mum didn't see fit to tell me - this isn't an old transition, this is recent, last 12 months , he's not medicated etc. He's literally just changed his name and said he's a boy. I feel like I had a right to know, to know who my daughter is hanging out with. Not because I think he's a freak or anything - but because as her mum, I have a right to warn, protect and guide my daughter through the inevitable shit storm due her way now.

I know why DD didn't tell me, we discussed that later, calmly and openly. She said she was surprised I took it so well when I found out - of course I masked my initial shock and didn't display any outward signs of shock etc. At the end of the day these are all KIDS, who I want to know can come to me with anything and I'll always listen.

But I'm angry, and worried about how she'll navigate this. It's a major thing. Teens have a tendency to be cruel, and this is an open goal for them. I want to support her in standing by her friend, no matter the journey, but also teach her she can bow out to protect herself. Her priority has to be her.

I really don't need anyone telling me I'm a "terf" cause that's not an insult to me. I do believe in single sex spaces, I do believe that gender is a construct. I do believe that transition in kids is probably the result of trauma and that they shouldn't be guided down transition - it should be treated as a phase, respectfully yes, but as a phase.

I just needed to get it out of my head, so I can be the best mum I can be. I can't discuss this with my family, because it's her private business.

Also, how do I gently steer her away from a relationship with this kid? Should I even do that?

If it were anything else e.g race it wouldn't be a factor. Religion also wouldn't be, I'd trust her and her intelligence to work through it. But I'm really really worried for her.

If a child is hanging around in my house I am responsible for them. If you don't trust someone to know a basic fact like your child's sex, then don't put that person in a position of responsibility for them. It's not fair.

It's also really bloody stupid. I mean, what if OP had actually been a dangerous transphobe? Poor child would have been on their own in the house of a dangerous person who'd just been surprised by the info of their actual sex. Hiding your sex was never going to be long term feasible, I'm amazed they managed it this long at 13.

The privacy of the trans child is one thing.
But lack of transparency puts the other child at risk.
If you can't see that then there's not much more I can say.

Now you are declaring who should have children or not!

Do you ever read back what you write?

You have called parents bigots and transphobes, have stated that child with trans identities should have their safeguarding prioritised ahead of any other child, have stated that even in a home situation another person’s child is not deserving of the same level of safeguarding for their needs ….

You are now the arbitrator of who deserves to have children at all.

Next you will be telling everyone that it is YOU on the right side of history.

Safeguarding decisions are every child’s parents responsibility. Your blinkered ideological stance means that parents will not have the important information to adequately make those decisions regardless of what your opinion of the other adults in that scenario is.

I will repeat it again from pages back.

If another child does not want their status disclosed, then DO NOT invite a child of the opposite sex to stay overnight. As a PARENT, you do NOT put any child or even parent in that situation.

The argument you keep saying is not being addressed is clear. A parent, regardless of how you teaklaxon judge them, ethically needs to know what sex a child is that their child is visiting over night, for whatever reason they are visiting. There is nothing more to address.

That you cannot see that parents need to have this knowledge is plain for all readers to see.

I agree that all child need safeguarding.

If a child doesn’t want another set of parents to know their situation, the onus is on the parents of that child to not invite other children of the opposite sex to stay or, as a reverse, to not agree that their child stays at a family who does know their sex.

But readers, there you have it. There are parents out there who will not be honest and upfront about their child’s sex if your child is staying over with them.

Maybe the parent thought it was obvious her daughter is female.
I think there is a lot of doublethink going on. When each bubble bursts, people will say "we all knew it was just a figure of speech". Autistic people, learning disabled, and many visually impaired people will feel they have been lied to. It's so cruel.

Look you can keep defending parents who are fine with their kids having underage sex at 13 in some circumstances all you like.

I will continue to say those parents are bad parents and I’ll stand by that.

You are so tolerant and you are so kind.

helleofabore

ive obviously missed something, ive not been keeping up

have there been parents saying they are happy for their children to have sex at 13?

Tolerant of parents who think it’s fine for their kids to be having sex at 13 provided it’s with someone of the same biological sex? Nope - never claimed to be tolerant of those types. Nor kind.

Helleofabore has been insisting that for some parents, the biological sex of a child who has invited their own child for a sleepover is relevant to whether they say yes or no.

I have said the only relevant question here is whether the parents trust the host parents to prevent sexual activity. The biological sex of the children is irrelevant, the same standards of preventing sexual activity should apply.

The only reason biological sex would be relevant would be if the parents don’t trust the host parents to prevent sexual activity but are happy to take that risk as long as the sex is between their child and someone of the same biological sex. Helleofabore considers that a perfectly reasonable approach to parenting that other parents have an obligation to indulge. I don’t.

No Rufus. I don't believe any parent has said this.

However, it has been swivelled to look like parents have said that to try to distract from what that particular poster has stated.

They have said that no parent needs to know the sex of the friend of their child /teen when giving permission for their child to stay overnight.

They have said that the parent's of a child/teen who has declared a trans identity should give higher priority to their own child over a child who is staying with them.

They have said effectively that parents should be lied to. That it is ok to carry out a deception such as this on a family involved in overnight stays.

They have then tried to frame the discussion on underage sex rather to distract from these points they have doubled down on quite a few times.

To be clear. NO parent has said that they are happy for their children to have sex at 13! That is just the framing that this poster has pivoted to.

But also, at least ONE parent on this thread believes it is ok to deceive parents who also wish to make sure that their own child is not staying overnight with child of the opposite sex.

The only reason biological sex would be relevant would be if the parents don’t trust the host parents to prevent sexual activity but are happy to take that risk as long as the sex is between their child and someone of the same biological sex.

No TeaKlaxon. I don't believe that having underage sex is the only reason any parent should know the sex of the other child.

I believe that YOU have said it was the only reason and have continued to focus on that.

I believe that there are other reasons as well. I also have consistently stated that your swivel to focus on this issue of underage sex was actually as irrelevant to the disclosure of the sex of the child that might be unknown as whether you believed that a parent was a 'bigot'.

It actually doesn't change the ethical principle that if you have a child/teen staying with you, as a parent you need to tell the parents of that child staying with you the sex of your own child so the parents can make an informed consent on that arrangement.

It is you that has continued to try to frame it the way you have.

By all means, crack on with the way you are arguing because every time you do it shows more and more just how intolerant you are of others and of other's needs unless they fit your judgement of being worthy.

If you have trust and confidence that there will be no sexual activity at a sleepover, then biological sex of the children doesn’t matter because there is no reason to stop opposite sex sleepovers.

If you don’t have trust and confidence that there will be no sexual activity at a sleepover, then biological sex of the children doesn’t matter because no reasonable parent would allow their child to sleepover in those circumstances.

All your bluster and you’ve still failed to explain why knowing the biological sex of the children your child is sleeping over with is relevant? I wonder why beyond your assertions and cries of ‘OMG look at what teaklaxon believes’ you have singularly failed to defend your own claims?

If you have trust and confidence that there will be no sexual activity at a sleepover, then biological sex of the children doesn’t matter because there is no reason to stop opposite sex sleepovers.

How can a parent make an informed judgement on this if they don’t know the sex of the children involved?

You are missing the main point though as every parent has the right to know who they are inviting into their home (or allowing their child to spend overnight with). Concealing a fundamental aspect of a child is wrong for many reasons.

It's not just about sexual activity. That's focusing on just one aspect of the potential harm here.
Harm isn't 'just' the worst case scenario is it?
Harm is also there in the potential for embarrassment and misunderstanding.
One scenario that springs to mind - what if a female trans child has a period whilst staying with friends who are under the impression that she is male? Difficult for the child to ask for help, confusing and mortifying all round potentially. Also entirely avoidable.

"I do believe in single sex spaces, I do believe that gender is a construct. I do believe that transition in kids is probably the result of trauma and that they shouldn't be guided down transition - it should be treated as a phase, respectfully yes, but as a phase."

But do you believe that people should be able date/have relationships with anyone they choose?

Isn't there a saying "love is blind"?

Thank you RichardBarrister. That has been my point the whole time.

There are quite a number of reasons that are not about wanted sexual activity, and plenty of reasons that have nothing to do with sexual activity. I think that is where TeaKlaxon's posts have continued to flail around. It is their belief that it is ONLY because of wanted sexual activity.

All reasons have to do with a parents ability to be able to assess whether that is a situation that their own child can cope with.

All parents should be given the sex of the friend their child is staying over night with. It is the same for parents giving permission for stays with school or organisational groups needing to know the sex make up of the accommodation set up - parents have to have full knowledge if their child is sharing sleeping spaces with children of the opposite sex.

@TeaKlaxon
😂you crack me up. I really can't take you seriously even if it sounds like you are frothing at the mouth😂

Your entire argument wants biological sex to be irrelevant and the trust needs to be in your holier-than-though excellent parenting which is teaching children to conceal facts from their parents because by default the parents are not holier-than-thou and simultaneously excellent like you.

The parent dared to ask questions. Shock horror. And take the potential of sex into the equation despite their full awareness of their excellent parenting NEVER leading to underage sexual activity!
HEATHENS! they actually want to avoid underage sexual activity but also on the off chance that it happens, they want to avoid the ultimate physical result of it to their daughters!

How DARE they consider consequences to FEMALE children specifically! 😤
BIGOTS! Transphobes! burn them all!

Everyone! Our new testament: no more sleepovers for the under- 4018 regardless of sex because sex is dead. Long live morality! (Corollary, everyone sleepover with everyone because we brought you up the EXCELLENT way with PROPER safe guarding in which mistakes, deliberate or not, NEVER happen and it won't be fair to go case by case because we'd be bigots if we found a scenario in which sleepovers could be tolerated. )

Anyway i still think the initial post was a wind up but thanks for the entertainment.

Once again, certain posters demonstrate that they have absolutely no idea what "safeguarding" actually means.

I wonder why beyond your assertions and cries of ‘OMG look at what teaklaxon believes’ you have singularly failed to defend your own claims?

Because it is only you who has reduced this to underage sex. Oh and bigots, and transphobes and people who should not be allowed to have children at all.

It does not change the facts:

All parents should have that information to make an informed decision. If a parent of a child who has a trans identity doesn't want to 'out' their child, don't invite other children to their home overnight or agree for that child to stay at another family's home if the parents of that other child is unaware of the trans identity.

I have merely removed all the emotional baggage that you keep trying to attach to your continued assertions that parents should not be told.

I don't feel I have to 'defend' my own claims. They are based on safeguarding principles. Your views are based on whatever emotion you choose to throw at it.

And I quite agree with posts stating that it isn't only about sexual activity. Sorry to derail from that thread of thought!

really can't take you seriously even if it sounds like you are frothing at the mouth😂
No, it doesn't 😕
Why do people on here always do this?
Try to paint opposing views as '' angry'',' 'frothing'' etc?
It's just somebody disagreeing with you
Not sure where you're getting frothing at the mouth from.

Oh and @MargaritaPie , we already have confusion between safe guarding, parental control and abusive parenting.

Please don't add any more.
Please don't use the generic term "people" when discussing sex between minors.
Be specific. The romantic rules that apply to adults do not always apply to children.

Calling parents transphobes is not a disagreement.

It is the equivalent of calling them sinners.

I've seen priests when they call people sinners they are usually spitting everywhere!

What is the difference GoodJanet between 'frothing' and 'blustering'?

Why is one acceptable and one not?

Why is calling out a poster for calling parents bigots and transphobes and for attempting to accuse posters of supporting things that they have not supported (and have said early they don't support) not acceptable to you and yet you have not pointed out the poster using the term 'bluster' in what can only be seen as projection considering the posts preceding it?

How does knowing the biological sex of a child your own child wants to sleep over with inform you as to whether there could be sexual activity at that sleepover?

The only thing that can inform you about that is what the hosting parent is doing to prevent it and how much you trust that hosting parent.