Daughter dating transboy

[JustFrustrated]

I'm putting it in here, because whilst I am needing relationship advice....it's not that simple.

This might be long, and I'm on the app so if there are formatting issues I apologise

So my daughter is "dating a trans boy".

DD (13) asked me 3/4 months ago if she could "go out" with a boy in her school.
I asked the usual questions, how old is he, is he your year group, what do you like about him etc. I agreed they could "date".

This is all in ".." because whilst they say they're boyfriend/girlfriend they're far more akin to just being best friends, they hang out, talk etc. But haven't kissed or anything. They may have held hands.

In the time they've been together they've spent lots of time outside of school together, as in one weekend day together at either his or our house.
They've been away with his Mom, sisters and sister's boyfriend to their holiday cottage just up the road, and I've taken them both to a concert and to some theme parks etc. I've very much kept this at "treat it like any other friendship". I remember being their age. I also know my daughter, she's smart (like I'm not just saying this, she's genuinely incredibly academically smart) she's a sensible girl.
Having met his family (mom, older sister and younger sister) they all seem like good people. His mum works in a very serious profession, the registered body kind of profession. His dad died when he was still in primary school.

He seems like a perfectly normal, polite boy. I even said to my DD that it would be nice if she maintained this friendship regardless of their relationship status as he is nice, his family is nice. We all want our kids to have good friends around right?

They were at ours at the weekend and it came out that "he" is actually "she" as in, sex = girl, gender = boy

Now. To clarify. I couldn't give two shiny shits if DD is a lesbian, literally wouldn't bother me at all. My brother is gay, and him and his partner are welcomed with open arms by me and the entire extended family. She knows this. She knows I fired a member of staff that I otherwise adored for a homophobic comment - no hesitation. So she knows my line on that.

However, I'm a big big believer in sex matters. That gender is a construct etc. I'll keep my opinions on that to myself and away from her going forwards.

But I'm so fucking angry. I'm angry that his mum didn't see fit to tell me - this isn't an old transition, this is recent, last 12 months , he's not medicated etc. He's literally just changed his name and said he's a boy. I feel like I had a right to know, to know who my daughter is hanging out with. Not because I think he's a freak or anything - but because as her mum, I have a right to warn, protect and guide my daughter through the inevitable shit storm due her way now.

I know why DD didn't tell me, we discussed that later, calmly and openly. She said she was surprised I took it so well when I found out - of course I masked my initial shock and didn't display any outward signs of shock etc. At the end of the day these are all KIDS, who I want to know can come to me with anything and I'll always listen.

But I'm angry, and worried about how she'll navigate this. It's a major thing. Teens have a tendency to be cruel, and this is an open goal for them. I want to support her in standing by her friend, no matter the journey, but also teach her she can bow out to protect herself. Her priority has to be her.

I really don't need anyone telling me I'm a "terf" cause that's not an insult to me. I do believe in single sex spaces, I do believe that gender is a construct. I do believe that transition in kids is probably the result of trauma and that they shouldn't be guided down transition - it should be treated as a phase, respectfully yes, but as a phase.

I just needed to get it out of my head, so I can be the best mum I can be. I can't discuss this with my family, because it's her private business.

Also, how do I gently steer her away from a relationship with this kid? Should I even do that?

If it were anything else e.g race it wouldn't be a factor. Religion also wouldn't be, I'd trust her and her intelligence to work through it. But I'm really really worried for her.

I guarantee they do sex ed starts in year 5 and with the internet most if not all secondary school children (like the OP’s daughter) have a good understanding so I don’t really know what you mean.

I guarantee they do sex ed starts in year 5 and with the internet most if not all secondary school children (like the OP’s daughter) have a good understanding so I don’t really know what you mean.

I have witnessed discussions between 12/13 year old girls over the past couple of years who actually don't have much understanding at all about sex, about consent, about their own bodily functions.

I do constantly see posters telling us that children and teens know more than some, maybe even many, of us have witnessed in our own children. In discussing this with my child's school about sex education with the teacher in charge, the teacher acknowledged too often people overestimate just how much the students know. Even at 14 years old.

The OP said 'It wasn't a holiday, it was two days at a caravan park with a family she's friendly with. I confirmed separate sleeping arrangements.'

You are gc.
Your dd is 13.
She's not at risk of pregnancy.
Her friend is a good kid.
All they do is go shopping.

Have the std chat if you must but it sounds like your ego is more hurt than your principles...

I'd let it ride. But I wouldn't have sent my dd even on separate sleeping arrangements on holiday with someone who I thought was of the male sex...

This reads like a wind up.

my daughter’s best friend is a trans boy. They’ve been friends since reception and her friend came out as trans in secondary school. I continued to treat them just the same as ever including with sleep overs.

I realised years later that obviously I’d always been transphobic in the sense I’ve never stopped thinking of them as female but just with short hair and boy clothes.

It never occurred to me though to suggest my daughter distance herself from her best friend because of likely bullying. She actually went to the school LGBT group to be supportive to her friend. I’m really proud of my daughter and how she’s remained true to herself and her friend.

In terms of sleeping arrangements I have never thought of them as anything other than female and treat the arrangements accordingly. It’s possible my daughter may experiment with same sex relationship stuff but she could do that with any girl on any sleepover and I’m not planning on banning all sleepovers with other girls.

my daughter does have friendships with friends with trauma and I just encourage talking and openness so she has an outlet to discuss concerns and has support there from adults. She’s not overly enmeshed in any friendship though so has ample time for her own mental health and doesn’t get overwhelmed with their problems they are facing.

Id worry about the deception and lying but why did your daughter not feel able to tell
you? That’s the question I’d want answered but when one of your responses has been to ask if you should steer her away from them then I think you have your answer.

why would the other parent let you know they are trans? They maybe took lead from your daughter on this? There is no safeguarding risk as they’re both female so I’m not sure there is a necessary right to know in the way you’d need to know if it was the other way round with a girl going away with a trans girl as kids sneak across corridors in the middle of the night and there is a pregnancy risk.

Most grown adults are pitifully ill-informed about consent, bodily functions, and how to avoid pregnancy. Myths abound.

Thirteen is really too young for dating, and in a lot of ways this situation shows why. Kids, at least in this day and age, don't have the emotional maturity or experience of people to function in a relationship. Add in some mental health issues and it's way too much emotional stress to load on a child of that age. And it's worse since covid. I know it seems like these kinds of relationships are just like friendships, but the idea that they are "dating" creates an intensity and pressure, not so much sexually but in these instances where what you really have are two girls, they can create surprsingly serious emotional expectations.

SEX. As in SEX and GENDER discussion board, which you are posting on. 🙄

So you’re shocked that this boys parents didn’t out him to someone whose views they likely regard as transphobic?

And shocked that your DD didn’t out him despite probably knowing some of your views?

Sorry but you reap what you sow - kids who have involvement with LGBT people (whether as an LGBT person themselves, or someone with LGBT friends, or someone who starts a relationship with an LGBT person) are hardly likely to be open about any of that with parents who hold anti-LGBT views.

There is nothing transphobic or anti-LGBT about OP's comments, at all.

Do you find lying helps you in these arguments?

Yeah but transphobes never think they are transphobic. OP admits she has the views of a TERF (not my word - I rarely use it as transphobes are as far from feminist as it’s possible to be).

Crucially, OP’s DD obviously knew a enough about her views to conceal this information. OP doesn’t get it both ways - she cant expect to hold views that harm trans people and also expect that her DD will respect her views to the point of outing her boyfriend.

Yeah but no. We don't think we are transphobic because we are not transphobic. You don't get to decide we are.

Holding views that harm trans people? Please elaborate exactly what these are?
You hold views that harm women. You're not a feminist, you're a misogynist.

There is nothing transphobic or anti-LGBT about OP's comments, at all
Hmm, I dunno, what about was fine about her DD going away with him until she's now found out he's trans, and now wanting ways '' to steer her away from this kid? ''
Why? Was presumably fine with him before until finding out and feeling angry?

Oh, and as safeguarding goes, you're a nightmare. Supporting children to lie to their parents about the sex of the other children they are spending time alone with...that's a view that harms children very very much.

She shouldn't be fine with her 13 year old DD going away with a boy, but apart from that, she definitely doesn't need to be ok with her DD going away with a girl presenting as a boy and them both lying about it.

Parents do actually need to know what their kids are doing, and who with, and what way they are being influenced.

The OP herself created the conditions for her child to lie to her. Teenagers aren’t automatons that owe full discretion to their parents - open relationships have to be earned.

And bigots don’t earn relationships with children where they’re going to out people close to them.

I absolutely do get to decide what I consider to be transphobic. It’s called having an opinion.

I share OP’s DD’ opinion that the OP should not be trusted with information that would have outed her boyfriend.

You haven't got a clue why the DD didn't tell her mother sooner. You have only your assumptions as to why, which obviously given how much you seem to detest women who don't agree with you, are assumptions that paint the OP in the most negative light you can possibly imagine.

Yeah - the daughter not telling OP obviously had nothing at all to OP’s views about trans people. Keep burying your head.

OP complained that this boys parents didn’t out him - they did the right thing. She seems pissed that her daughter didn’t out him - in the circumstances she also did the right thing, but the better outcome would have been if she felt she had a mum she could be honest with about her boyfriend.

Yeah, because you have a complete understanding of the OP and her DD's relationship, garnered from a few scant posts here.... <sarcasm>of course you do</sarcasm>. You are making a negative assumption because of your own beliefs.

Of course, it would be ideal in all teenage/parent relationships, for the teenagers to feel able to tell their parents relevant facts about their personal lives.

they did the right thing

Actually, not for all situations. 0n a safeguarding level, considering the daughter stayed over I completely disagree if there was an opposite sex child involved.

If that was an opposite sex child and the OP assumed it was a same sex child, that makes all the difference.

Only a fool would think it was the 'right thing' to allow a parent to be uninformed in a situation where that was an opposite sex situation that was unknown. This time, the OP was lucky. It was same sex.

Non-disclosure when there is an opposite sex issue is irresponsible. Wouldn't you agree TeaKlaxon?

A child who is queer or dating a queer person is often better off not disclosing that to a bigoted parent.

No. It is never ok for a 12 or 13 year old or a 14/15 year old to be staying over with someone that a parent believes is the opposite sex when that other child's parent has not disclosed the true sex in that particular situation.

To be very clear, when a parent knows their child is the opposite sex to the other child and in a romantic relationship, it is NOT ever ok to NOT inform the other parents so they can make an informed choice.

If you cannot see that, can I recommend that you do some basic safeguarding. Because what you are advocating is incredibly harmful for both children.

I would be raising red flags with ANY person who allowed this.

But teaklaxon from your past posts, I am not surprised at all at your lack of safeguarding or consideration for females of any age.

A child who is queer or dating a queer person is often better off not disclosing that to a bigoted parent.

Nope. It doesn't matter how 'bigoted' you view another parent. If you do not disclose the truth, DO NOT INVITE AN OPPOSITE SEX TWEEN OR TEEN TO STAY OVERNIGHT!

It is actually not that hard to respect that other parents have the right to be fully informed, regardless of how you view them.

I’m not sure how hard is it to understand: when bigots create the conditions when people need to keep information from them in order to keep themselves or people they live safe, the fault for that lies with the bigots for being bigots.

If you want people to be open with you about being LGBT+, don’t be so hostile to people who are LGBT+.

If you choose hostility, then others will choose to exclude you from that information and with very good reason. No parent should be outing their child to anyone else without their agreement, least of all those with transphobic views.