Daughter dating transboy

[JustFrustrated]

I'm putting it in here, because whilst I am needing relationship advice....it's not that simple.

This might be long, and I'm on the app so if there are formatting issues I apologise

So my daughter is "dating a trans boy".

DD (13) asked me 3/4 months ago if she could "go out" with a boy in her school.
I asked the usual questions, how old is he, is he your year group, what do you like about him etc. I agreed they could "date".

This is all in ".." because whilst they say they're boyfriend/girlfriend they're far more akin to just being best friends, they hang out, talk etc. But haven't kissed or anything. They may have held hands.

In the time they've been together they've spent lots of time outside of school together, as in one weekend day together at either his or our house.
They've been away with his Mom, sisters and sister's boyfriend to their holiday cottage just up the road, and I've taken them both to a concert and to some theme parks etc. I've very much kept this at "treat it like any other friendship". I remember being their age. I also know my daughter, she's smart (like I'm not just saying this, she's genuinely incredibly academically smart) she's a sensible girl.
Having met his family (mom, older sister and younger sister) they all seem like good people. His mum works in a very serious profession, the registered body kind of profession. His dad died when he was still in primary school.

He seems like a perfectly normal, polite boy. I even said to my DD that it would be nice if she maintained this friendship regardless of their relationship status as he is nice, his family is nice. We all want our kids to have good friends around right?

They were at ours at the weekend and it came out that "he" is actually "she" as in, sex = girl, gender = boy

Now. To clarify. I couldn't give two shiny shits if DD is a lesbian, literally wouldn't bother me at all. My brother is gay, and him and his partner are welcomed with open arms by me and the entire extended family. She knows this. She knows I fired a member of staff that I otherwise adored for a homophobic comment - no hesitation. So she knows my line on that.

However, I'm a big big believer in sex matters. That gender is a construct etc. I'll keep my opinions on that to myself and away from her going forwards.

But I'm so fucking angry. I'm angry that his mum didn't see fit to tell me - this isn't an old transition, this is recent, last 12 months , he's not medicated etc. He's literally just changed his name and said he's a boy. I feel like I had a right to know, to know who my daughter is hanging out with. Not because I think he's a freak or anything - but because as her mum, I have a right to warn, protect and guide my daughter through the inevitable shit storm due her way now.

I know why DD didn't tell me, we discussed that later, calmly and openly. She said she was surprised I took it so well when I found out - of course I masked my initial shock and didn't display any outward signs of shock etc. At the end of the day these are all KIDS, who I want to know can come to me with anything and I'll always listen.

But I'm angry, and worried about how she'll navigate this. It's a major thing. Teens have a tendency to be cruel, and this is an open goal for them. I want to support her in standing by her friend, no matter the journey, but also teach her she can bow out to protect herself. Her priority has to be her.

I really don't need anyone telling me I'm a "terf" cause that's not an insult to me. I do believe in single sex spaces, I do believe that gender is a construct. I do believe that transition in kids is probably the result of trauma and that they shouldn't be guided down transition - it should be treated as a phase, respectfully yes, but as a phase.

I just needed to get it out of my head, so I can be the best mum I can be. I can't discuss this with my family, because it's her private business.

Also, how do I gently steer her away from a relationship with this kid? Should I even do that?

If it were anything else e.g race it wouldn't be a factor. Religion also wouldn't be, I'd trust her and her intelligence to work through it. But I'm really really worried for her.

To answer some follow up questions -

It wasn't a holiday, it was two days at a caravan park with a family she's friendly with. I confirmed separate sleeping arrangements. Due to previous hobbies etc, her going away with people isn't actually a "new" thing. And because I'm trying to treat it more as a friendship than a relationship, it would have been VERY unusual for me to say no to that, but not say no to her going away with a different male friend a couple of weeks later.

With regards to not being able to tell, I just figured he was effeminate, I know when I was 13, if I'd cut my hair short, no you wouldn't have been able to determine my sex, I never did develop. Boobs/hips etc, never came to me.

Yes, it is the social contagion that bothers me, I don't want her being swept up in it and either receiving the bullying that probably will eventually occur (though I desperately hope it doesn't) but I also don't want her being caught up in the whole "trans activism" crap.

But yes, the lack of pregnancy risk is a positive.

13 being too young for dating.... Again, I'm the one not using the term, but trying to respect her boundaries on this. I do plan on sitting with her and discussing different types of relationships, even with friends, to see if she feels it does identify as more of a best friend situation than a romantic relationship situation.

I get your concern
but probably the other parent assumed you knew?
also, they are 13, chances are this relationship will run it’s natural course soon-ish
don’t try to dissuade her - she maybe sensible and smart, but shes 13 and you’re her mum, in her head she’s right, you’re wrong… don’t even go there
just treat this as you had - talk about healthy relationships and boundaries

I'm with you OP, I'd be disappointed to not know. We are repeatedly told that transition is a big deal, so you of course wonder how your DD will be affected / along for the ride with the girl in question who is obviously going through something massive. I'd also feel that way if my child was dating someone who was in and out of hospital with x,y and z.

Also, we hear reports of teen girls who might have trauma issues / autism etc transitioning. Some of these other posters are shrugging off as no big deal, and maybe it won't be, but I don't agree with them, I think you are a good parent to want to look out for your daughter.

I'm not a parent of a teen so I'm sorry I have no useful advice to pass on, but keep your good relationship and talking openly. 13 is so young too, odds are they'll flit to the next 'relationship'.

So OP used some inflammatory language which made the whole post seem suspect, and very unlikely to come from an actual GC woman.

Now MNHQ has edited the post to remove the inflammatory language that gave away the game, instead of deleting it.

🙄

Oh I'm very much GC and just got the editing email from MNHQ.

I've posted on this board before, I'm active on Twitter and campaign and financially donate to various causes around.

So if you think the post is suspect, or even I am, feel free to report it to MNHQ who can investigate.

I'm just a concerned mother, dealing with something I didn't actually think would come up. And I'm doing my damnedest to look after ALL the children concerned in this.

The young"boy" in this equation has had a hard life so far and whilst I want to protect my daughter first and foremost, I really don't want to cause a perfectly lovely young child any harm.

Agree, treat it like a friendship, be glad it's not the other way round with her having a "girlfriend" who gets her pregnant. Sounds very tame and safe.

It might also be good in a way for her to have some real-life exposure of all this, rather than being dazzled by Tik-Tok videos and filters. Let her see that you like and care about her "boyfriend" so any views you share on the wider issues are not interpreted as "hate". The relationship will almost certainly run its course in time, as they are 13.

Thanks for clarifying it a bit.
I think that I would feel a bit hurt too if my DD had told me she was dating a boy when she was dating a transboy, due to a lack of honesty about that.
I get what you mean about the potential for adjacent harm if this child has had trauma in their life and how that might impact on your child. But I guess you talk to your DD about consent) boundaries etc and support her. I would save any thoughts of intervention unless there's a problem.
Regarding social contagion. Here I would be concerned too. Your DD is already on board with this so choose your dialogue carefully. Keep talking and listening and give her the means to always be able to come and talk to you without pressure or judgement.

That's a really good point thank you.

And yes, I do agree it's likely to run its course naturally.

Just worried I guess.

Hmm, I do see what you and PP mean about not wanting your daughter to get swallowed up in someone else's issues. All I can suggest is - like if she was dating anyone else with issues - you do all you can to help her see she isn't responsible for this person's wellbeing or for affirming their "identity", and that she can identify any unhealthy relationship patterns.

OP...two things.

1. Deceit. I'd be upset about the lie. Your daughter, her friend and her friend's mom all obfuscated the truth. I have teen DDs and I push them to be honest. I would talk sensitively to your DD and tell her why trust is so critical, that you will do your best to be truthful w/ her and you expect the same in return. I think it's odd that the mother of the friend, even after a conversation about sleeping arrangements, didn't open up about the truth of the matter. I would be concerned that this woman may keep you in the dark in the future on other issues...right now, you can't trust her, despite her seeming lovely.
2. Death of this child's father means severe childhood trauma, which may explain the transition desire. Losing a father at a difficult age can have lasting impacts during vulnerable times in life. Puberty/teenage years can be especially difficult. Talk about this w/ your daughter so she can look at her friend's desire to transition in lieu of this information. I have a family friend's daughter who also lost a father when young and is also wishing to be a boy. Very similar situation

Good luck to you, momma!

I can't really see an issue. They're both biologically female, it's not like a heterosexual couple who are naively assuming that they "couldn't possibly get pregnant as we're both 'girls'". There's no suggestion of your daughter medically harming her own body, or of having her privacy invaded by a male.

Tell her you're 100% with her against any and all sexist bullshit but that it's really important to you that you keep lines of open honest communication flowing and that you need to talk to her about coercion, consent and not being manipulated into doing anything she isn't comfortable with. Ask how she would define her sexuality on a Kinsey scale. Compare trans ideology to a religion which (at least from the sounds of it) you don't hold, but you can also explain that if as she grows up she believes things you don't you can accept that but you won't be pretending to believe things you don't.

Ask how she would define her sexuality on a Kinsey scale
What? Why? A teens sexuality is their own business!
Trying to imagine my mum asking me to define my sexuality - I'd be thinking it's none of her business!
Do people usually have to justify it define it?
No. You don't do it for if you're straight/lesbian/gay/bi, (I hope!) so why should she in this case?
Talk about a sure fire way to get your teens to stop telling you anything and push them away!

Yes, telling her to define her sexuality on a scale and telling her that trans is a religion - can see that going down like a sack of spuds, really hope you're not serious.
Unless you want the DD to be like 🙄 and clam up in future /tell them nothing.

Lots of us mothers do have honest and open conversations w/ our teen DDs about sex. It's called parenting.

Lots of us mothers do have honest and open conversations w/ our teen DDs about sex. It's called parenting.

Yes, that's fair enough.
I agree that there's nothing wrong with having conversations with your teens about sex and that it's called parenting.
I know as a parent to two teens though I'd never ask them to define their sexuality (that's a whole separate thing!) it's just not something you do.
If it doesn't matter when you're lesbian/gay/bi (I presume it doesn't with you?) then why should it here?

Was in a slightly different situation (but only slightly) with our teen.

Part of the discussion involved making sure that they were aware for school trips overnight that they were not sharing rooms etc. They were horrified to think we thought they would have sex, but we told them we would never allow two children of different sexes to share rooms so why would this be different. Plus, if they had a disagreement, it would be very uncomfortable to have to be in the same room/tent in the middle of the night. We phrased it as ‘no romantic partners share overnight accommodation regardless of the sex of either partner’. The teens understood that and were fine.

In any case, by the time the school trip came about they had broken up and our teen was thankful we had insisted on that policy as room mates had become set early in discussion of the trip, and so ended up avoiding the very uncomfortable issue.

Another discussion point was the mental health aspect. In this instance, both young teens had very poor mental health (partly covid) as did the wider friend group (5 out of 7 were identifying under trans umbrella). The intensity of the mental health aspect ended up too much and my teen broke it off.

They eventually have had much less contact with the whole group except one socially transitioned child who continues to be their closest friend and a lovely person. But again totally focused on their poor mental health. (Even does social media discussing their poor mental health)

Since reducing contact with others and breaking off the romance, my teens mental health has improved remarkably. Even they can’t reconcile how much they feel happier and more positive compared to when they were in that group.

The continuous focus of this group on their mental health was very hard to witness from the outside and lots of it was about injustices experienced because their trans status. A few were always talking about taking violent revenge on an ex-friend for being misgendered for example. (Of course, they were ridiculous fantasies and these young teens were NOT going to do these things)

Of course, discussions around this need to be very sensitively handled. We also handled the romance like a ‘friendship’ and included that person in activities and did things with the other family as a group. It was never an issue except for school trips but since both sets of parents were in the same mind anyway, that also wasn’t an issue.

Good luck OP.

I doubt if it would have occurred to your dd to tell you. And I doubt the mum thought much about it either. She is dealing with being a mum, whilst as a family they have been through a lot. I don’t think it is fair to have expectations like this on a mum, who has and is probably still struggling and now has a trans child.

I have a 13 yo. I wouldn’t allow dd to go away with a boyfriend and his parents regardless of their behaviour and parental reassurance that they would be sleeping separately. The siblings would cover for them if they snuck into bed together. I wouldn’t have allowed it even I knew they were the same sex as I think the same rules should apply. Far too intense without mentioning some children this age are having sex.

Is it not unfair insinuating a woman going through a tough time has taken her eye off the ball without reflecting on your part in this?

I'm angry that his mum didn't see fit to tell me

I am wondering about this though. Are you good friends with the mother? Because, otherwise isn’t the onus on your child to have told you? I agree with pp, if I was that mother, I would have assumed you would have known the sex of your daughter’s boy/girlfriend. Although, if I had your child over to stay I would discuss accommodations with you no doubt. But still assume you knew.

Mind you, at that age I wouldn’t have allowed my early teen to have an over night stay at their boy/girlfiend’s because of many reasons not just the potential of sex happening. But I know others are fine with this.

Why would you be so angry that you haven’t been told, they aren’t your child and like you said kids can be cruel if anything YOURE being cruel now. It’s not hurting anyone and they’re a child let them be. If your daughters intelligent enough to understand race and religion like you said then let her be as kids these days are more in tune than we are.

As ThirdFiddle says I think that this - Sounds like a very tame, safe first relationship, whether she ends up being a lesbian and this is a way to test being in a lesbian relationship without having to come out; or she ends up straight, and this is a way to test dating a boy without the associated male teenager physicality.

I certainly wasn't picturing the kind of hostile interrogation my comment seems to have evoked in GoodJanetBadJanet's mind which is likely to be me expressing myself poorly, I think, as I was in a hurry. So* *whilst I would in no way press for a definitive answer I would recommend asking them to think about about how they feel they would describe their sexual orientation. I would say that they don't have to answer immediately, I would say that they don't have to tell me if they don't want to, but I would be encouraging my daughter to consider her own feelings and what she does and doesn't want in relationships and to feel confident and empowered to articulate that.

As someone else pointed out it depends on your relationship with them and how open you usually are about sex and sexuality in general I guess. Talking to your Mum about sex is undoubtedly cringe worthy. I suppose I do think it 'matters' if someone is homosexual / bi / heterosexual but not at all in a homophobic way but in a your sexual orientation is worthy of respect and depends on your feelings not someone else's. I would want to reassure my daughter that she could tell me.

I'm another one who's not quite sure what the problem is, and why you thought it was OK for a 13-yo girl to go on holiday with someone you thought was male?

It's not the fact anyone is trans that's an issue for me, it's that their biological sex is important in certain situations, such as room-sharing. But I can't really see that it's an issue with same-sex female couples, unless you are super worried about online activism etc and worried for the trans boy if they are intending to undergo any surgery?

kids these days are more in tune than we are.

No. They are not.

And it is a very big issue to allow child or a young teen to make potentially life changing decisions, or to put them in a position where they feel they have to accept things that may cause them distress to 'fit in' with peer's or society's expectations about a current issue.

They are not! They don't even understand what sex means, most of them