Daughter dating transboy

[JustFrustrated]

I'm putting it in here, because whilst I am needing relationship advice....it's not that simple.

This might be long, and I'm on the app so if there are formatting issues I apologise

So my daughter is "dating a trans boy".

DD (13) asked me 3/4 months ago if she could "go out" with a boy in her school.
I asked the usual questions, how old is he, is he your year group, what do you like about him etc. I agreed they could "date".

This is all in ".." because whilst they say they're boyfriend/girlfriend they're far more akin to just being best friends, they hang out, talk etc. But haven't kissed or anything. They may have held hands.

In the time they've been together they've spent lots of time outside of school together, as in one weekend day together at either his or our house.
They've been away with his Mom, sisters and sister's boyfriend to their holiday cottage just up the road, and I've taken them both to a concert and to some theme parks etc. I've very much kept this at "treat it like any other friendship". I remember being their age. I also know my daughter, she's smart (like I'm not just saying this, she's genuinely incredibly academically smart) she's a sensible girl.
Having met his family (mom, older sister and younger sister) they all seem like good people. His mum works in a very serious profession, the registered body kind of profession. His dad died when he was still in primary school.

He seems like a perfectly normal, polite boy. I even said to my DD that it would be nice if she maintained this friendship regardless of their relationship status as he is nice, his family is nice. We all want our kids to have good friends around right?

They were at ours at the weekend and it came out that "he" is actually "she" as in, sex = girl, gender = boy

Now. To clarify. I couldn't give two shiny shits if DD is a lesbian, literally wouldn't bother me at all. My brother is gay, and him and his partner are welcomed with open arms by me and the entire extended family. She knows this. She knows I fired a member of staff that I otherwise adored for a homophobic comment - no hesitation. So she knows my line on that.

However, I'm a big big believer in sex matters. That gender is a construct etc. I'll keep my opinions on that to myself and away from her going forwards.

But I'm so fucking angry. I'm angry that his mum didn't see fit to tell me - this isn't an old transition, this is recent, last 12 months , he's not medicated etc. He's literally just changed his name and said he's a boy. I feel like I had a right to know, to know who my daughter is hanging out with. Not because I think he's a freak or anything - but because as her mum, I have a right to warn, protect and guide my daughter through the inevitable shit storm due her way now.

I know why DD didn't tell me, we discussed that later, calmly and openly. She said she was surprised I took it so well when I found out - of course I masked my initial shock and didn't display any outward signs of shock etc. At the end of the day these are all KIDS, who I want to know can come to me with anything and I'll always listen.

But I'm angry, and worried about how she'll navigate this. It's a major thing. Teens have a tendency to be cruel, and this is an open goal for them. I want to support her in standing by her friend, no matter the journey, but also teach her she can bow out to protect herself. Her priority has to be her.

I really don't need anyone telling me I'm a "terf" cause that's not an insult to me. I do believe in single sex spaces, I do believe that gender is a construct. I do believe that transition in kids is probably the result of trauma and that they shouldn't be guided down transition - it should be treated as a phase, respectfully yes, but as a phase.

I just needed to get it out of my head, so I can be the best mum I can be. I can't discuss this with my family, because it's her private business.

Also, how do I gently steer her away from a relationship with this kid? Should I even do that?

If it were anything else e.g race it wouldn't be a factor. Religion also wouldn't be, I'd trust her and her intelligence to work through it. But I'm really really worried for her.

There are lots of conclusions being jumped to here without evidence.
At 13 the DD is a child. Allowed to date and have privacy up to a point. Bear in mind most kids are still getting their phones checked by their parents at this age.
Mum is entitled to feel aggrieved that she has been kept in the dark.
Would be different if the child was older, but this young I think parents do need clarity about who their children are spending time with. You cannot assume that a 13 year old child will have the emotional maturity to always make good choices and decisions. That would be poor parenting.
I somehow doubt the DD has deliberately misled her parent and it's perhaps more to the point that this is not a significant detail for her personally.

I’m not sure how hard is it to understand: when bigots create the conditions when people need to keep information from them in order to keep themselves or people they live safe, the fault for that lies with the bigots for being bigots.

Not sure where you get off calling OP a bigot. But if you honestly cannot see how harmful it is to not disclose this very fact, it is YOU who are endangering children and teens. YOU.

If another child does not want their status disclosed, then DO NOT invite a child of the opposite sex to stay overnight. As a PARENT, you do NOT put any child or even parent in that situation.

It is basic respect. Why are you encouraging any parent to have such blatant disregard for another child or their parents?

If you are going to tell us that this is 'hostile', perhaps you should inform us just how you are going to look in the eyes of a child who has been put into a situation that they cannot cope with because their parent thought they were with another child of the same sex, and it ended up being a completely different situation.

As usual, you seem to lack the ability to see all sides to this situation. A very good thing that most parents, and I can only assume from past posts that you are not a parent, do not take sides and actually look at the situation with safeguarding in mind.

No parent should be outing their child to anyone else without their agreement, least of all those with transphobic views.

Then no parent should be putting other children in a situation that is potentially harmful to protect their child. It is simple, really it is.

Do not invite an opposite sex child to stay overnight if you know the parents do not understand that your child is opposite sex.

Not sure why you are removing any responsibility from parents to look after another child's welfare when disclosure of sex is imperative in this situation.

The obligation here lies with parents not to be bigots.

If you are a bigot, then a parent of a queer child is absolutely justified in prioritising their own child’s protection from bigotry. The fault there lies with bigots, not the protecting parents of queer kids.

I am not sure how many time I should repeat this.

If you don't want your child to be outed, you should not invite an opposite sex child to stay with you.

Really.... what about this are you not getting?

It is NO child's right to have a friend stay overnight. It is lovely and it is fun. But if you have a child that the friend's parents think is the opposite sex, you are potentially putting that other child into a situation that they cannot cope with, or that may be even harmful.

Calling OP or ANY PARENT saying this on this thread a bigot is showing YOUR lack of knowledge about safeguarding, parental choice and parental responsibility.

Your focus on calling parents bigots seems to blind you to the reality of the situation.

If you are a bigot, then a parent of a queer child is absolutely justified in prioritising their own child’s protection from bigotry. The fault there lies with bigots, not the protecting parents of queer kids

Inflammatory language. So, assuming that the OP is a disgraceful bigot, why are the other child's parents even letting their child spend time with the spawn of the bigot? Surely the best way to protect them would be to stop this relationship?

If you are a bigot, then a parent of a queer child is absolutely justified in prioritising their own child’s protection from bigotry.

I will repeat this.

There is NEVER a justification for putting a female child or teen or a male one, into a situation they cannot cope with or that causes them distress because their romantic partner is the opposite sex to them. And they are either too young to understand the situations they can get into and cope with, or that the parents are not aware of the opposite sex of the romantic partner.

There is NEVER a justification to not disclose the fact to a parent of a child that you are hosting overnight that your child is the opposite sex to which that other parent believes.

NEVER.

If you do not want to out your child, DO NOT invite the other child over the stay.

And it fucking doesn't matter if the child's parents are bigots or not. It is THAT simple.

Tell us teaklaxon what other safeguarding measures are you happy to ignore for children or teens who identify as trans?

Because at the moment, you are advocating for parents to ignore one of the big ones.

What else should be ignored here?

That’s nonsense. We don’t blame kids for the sins of their parents.

That’s nonsense. We don’t blame kids for the sins of their parents.

Are you accusing the OP of being a bigot teaklaxon?

Except that this thread isn’t about anyone of the opposite biological sex. You have no idea if the parents of the boyfriend would have invited a boy as opposed to a girl.

The OP’s complaint was that the parents should have outed their child to them. Which is utter nonsense.

What you fail to understand is that protecting a queer child from bigotry is an exercise in safeguarding.

Straight cisgender people often think their rights trump the rights of queer people. They don’t. Parents of queer kids have one primary safeguarding obligation and that is to their own child. Their further obligations to other kids is secondary.

If a bigoted parent creates the condition where no one feels comfortable outing a trans kid to them, then they alone have created that situation.

You have no idea if the parents of the boyfriend would have invited a boy as opposed to a girl.

It makes no difference. I was very explicit in stating that in the situation where opposite sex children / teens were involved that there was a responsibility for the parents to disclose the information.

And you have continued to deny that this is necessary and have actually said this would be the wrong thing to do.

We can all see that you posted that you thought that parents of a child had no responsibility to disclose the sex of the their child in a situation where their romantic partner (or any child) was staying overnight and the parents were unaware that the child who had a trans identity was the opposite sex.

I was very clear and you told us that no parents had any such responsibility.

Are you now back tracking?

Are you now saying that you understand that safeguarding in some situations should be the priority and that opposite sex should be disclosed?

What you fail to understand is that protecting a queer child from bigotry is an exercise in safeguarding.

No. I don't fail to understand. I have trans identified children in my daily life.

Parents of queer kids have one primary safeguarding obligation and that is to their own child. Their further obligations to other kids is secondary.

What part of DO NOT invite another child to stay overnight are you not getting?

If the parents of a kid who is identifying as trans don't want to put their child in that situation of being 'outed', DO NOT invite another child who is the opposite sex to stay overnight.

Are you seriously not reading what I write?

Parents are adults. They have a great deal of responsibility to children in their house that are not their own.

Fuck! if you think that a trans identified child deserves more safeguarding than another child that is not your own that you have agreed to host overnight, then I am shocked.

Really, you think that? You have no idea about safeguarding anyone.

Are you a parent?

Im not a parent Helle but what you’re saying seems perfectly blindingly obvious to me.

the handwaving away of safeguarding on the basis that inner feelings override biological reality will never not be shocking

If a bigoted parent creates the condition where no one feels comfortable outing a trans kid to them, then they alone have created that situation.

And if you are implying again that OP is bigoted, please stop it.

I'm completely GC but this just sounds very sweet. As long as your daughter was aware that their friend was trans then I don't think anyone needed to inform you specifically - although I would expect your dd to have mentioned it when you asked about them. I would handle it sensitively because you want her to continue to feel she can come to you. You say that you know why she didn't tell you from the start but then it's not clear what the reason was?

So if you lie to parents and put their child in danger, its their fault because you don't like that they understand what biological sex is and won't conform to your bigotry? Hell no.

Oh, and did you label this child queer without them choosing that themselves? Bigot. How dare you.

eyeballs

I don't assume that only parents understand this. Please don't think that was my intention.

My intention is to say, WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK, if this is a parent saying this!!!

I mean, even before I was a parent, I fully understood that any child under my roof was my responsibility even if that child was not my own, or even known to me. As you say, it is blindingly obvious.

But it is very concerning to hear a person who might be in a position of responsibility of any child say the things that this poster is saying. That they continue to not once engage with the points I mention, is very telling indeed.

It is all just repeating propaganda style statements.

And even more startling clear, absolutely no fucking concern for any female child that might be involved in such an overnight stay.

I don't think I need to say anymore about it. Readers will immediately have grasped just that lack of consideration.

So, it is not just me that sees exactly what teaklaxon is advocating for?

Straight cisgender people often think their rights trump the rights of queer people. They don’t

Nor does it work the other way round. Despite that some people might wish it to be so.

These are CHILDREN. And ALL adults are responsible for children in their care, regardless of if that child is theirs or not. AND if they DON'T want to assume temporary responsibility for that child DO NOT INVITE THEM TO STAY OVERNIGHT.

In fact, don't invite any other child to your house ever!

Personally I don’t think a parent should be having any boyfriend or girlfriend of a 13 year old sleeping over unless they can guarantee they’ll be sleeping separately. The idea that it’s fine for two children of the same biological sex who are dating to sleep in the same space but not the opposite biological sex is bizarre.

The reason we keep children safe from having sex at 13 is not just that they might get pregnant but because their minds are not able to process and consent to sex - that applies whether it’s with the same biological sex or not. So presumably the hypothetical parent who is consenting to their child going on a sleepover is consenting on the basis that their child will be in a situation where they will not be exposed sexually to the other child. That is a safeguarding issue.

Personally I don’t think a parent should be having any boyfriend or girlfriend of a 13 year old sleeping over unless they can guarantee they’ll be sleeping separately. The idea that it’s fine for two children of the same biological sex who are dating to sleep in the same space but not the opposite biological sex is bizarre.

The reason we keep children safe from having sex at 13 is not just that they might get pregnant but because their minds are not able to process and consent to sex - that applies whether it’s with the same biological sex or not. So presumably the hypothetical parent who is consenting to their child going on a sleepover is consenting on the basis that their child will be in a situation where they will not be exposed sexually to the other child. That is a safeguarding issue.

I agree.

But it does not remove the meanings from your other posts. At all.

Of course they are responsible for the children in their care. Which is why I certainly agree that responsible parents should not allow dating 13 year olds - regardless of their biological sex - to sleep in the same space.

If the OP’s complaint was that they failed by, eg allowing her DD and her boyfriend to sleep in the same bedroom, Id agree fully with that.

But they are not responsible for the parents’ decision to permit a sleepover or not. They have no obligation to either out their child or deny their child sleepovers as a consequence of being trans.

No of course - my other posts stand completely.

The parents of a trans child can invite other children for a sleepover. It’s up to those other childrens’ parents if they agree or not.

I would not be agreeing to any sleepover unless I trusted that the parents would be able to stop sexual activity between the children regardless of biological sex.

If the parents allowing the sleepover could stop that, then there’s no particular relevance that the child is trans. If they can’t, then the other parents shouldn’t be agreeing to a sleepover in the first place regardless of the trans thing.

Lets say OP had a DS rather than a DD. And he said he had a new boyfriend and he had been invited to stay in their cottage. It would be bizarre to be OK with that if the boyfriend was a cis boy rather than a trans boy - since it assumes the only reason to stop children who are dating from sleeping together is to stop pregnancy, rather than to stop underage sex that they can’t consent to.

But they are not responsible for the parents’ decision to permit a sleepover or not. They have no obligation to either out their child or deny their child sleepovers as a consequence of being trans.

Yes. If they are inviting any child to stay overnight that might be in a romantic relationship with their child, they are responsible for disclosing all the necessary information for the other parents to be able to make an informed choice.

That you cannot see this strikes me to be similar to Stonewall's actions to remove the responsibility from a trans person to disclose their birth sex to a prospective sex partner before the act of sex.

A parent has to have full information to make a fully informed decision.

I ask again, are you a parent?