Daughter dating transboy

[JustFrustrated]

I'm putting it in here, because whilst I am needing relationship advice....it's not that simple.

This might be long, and I'm on the app so if there are formatting issues I apologise

So my daughter is "dating a trans boy".

DD (13) asked me 3/4 months ago if she could "go out" with a boy in her school.
I asked the usual questions, how old is he, is he your year group, what do you like about him etc. I agreed they could "date".

This is all in ".." because whilst they say they're boyfriend/girlfriend they're far more akin to just being best friends, they hang out, talk etc. But haven't kissed or anything. They may have held hands.

In the time they've been together they've spent lots of time outside of school together, as in one weekend day together at either his or our house.
They've been away with his Mom, sisters and sister's boyfriend to their holiday cottage just up the road, and I've taken them both to a concert and to some theme parks etc. I've very much kept this at "treat it like any other friendship". I remember being their age. I also know my daughter, she's smart (like I'm not just saying this, she's genuinely incredibly academically smart) she's a sensible girl.
Having met his family (mom, older sister and younger sister) they all seem like good people. His mum works in a very serious profession, the registered body kind of profession. His dad died when he was still in primary school.

He seems like a perfectly normal, polite boy. I even said to my DD that it would be nice if she maintained this friendship regardless of their relationship status as he is nice, his family is nice. We all want our kids to have good friends around right?

They were at ours at the weekend and it came out that "he" is actually "she" as in, sex = girl, gender = boy

Now. To clarify. I couldn't give two shiny shits if DD is a lesbian, literally wouldn't bother me at all. My brother is gay, and him and his partner are welcomed with open arms by me and the entire extended family. She knows this. She knows I fired a member of staff that I otherwise adored for a homophobic comment - no hesitation. So she knows my line on that.

However, I'm a big big believer in sex matters. That gender is a construct etc. I'll keep my opinions on that to myself and away from her going forwards.

But I'm so fucking angry. I'm angry that his mum didn't see fit to tell me - this isn't an old transition, this is recent, last 12 months , he's not medicated etc. He's literally just changed his name and said he's a boy. I feel like I had a right to know, to know who my daughter is hanging out with. Not because I think he's a freak or anything - but because as her mum, I have a right to warn, protect and guide my daughter through the inevitable shit storm due her way now.

I know why DD didn't tell me, we discussed that later, calmly and openly. She said she was surprised I took it so well when I found out - of course I masked my initial shock and didn't display any outward signs of shock etc. At the end of the day these are all KIDS, who I want to know can come to me with anything and I'll always listen.

But I'm angry, and worried about how she'll navigate this. It's a major thing. Teens have a tendency to be cruel, and this is an open goal for them. I want to support her in standing by her friend, no matter the journey, but also teach her she can bow out to protect herself. Her priority has to be her.

I really don't need anyone telling me I'm a "terf" cause that's not an insult to me. I do believe in single sex spaces, I do believe that gender is a construct. I do believe that transition in kids is probably the result of trauma and that they shouldn't be guided down transition - it should be treated as a phase, respectfully yes, but as a phase.

I just needed to get it out of my head, so I can be the best mum I can be. I can't discuss this with my family, because it's her private business.

Also, how do I gently steer her away from a relationship with this kid? Should I even do that?

If it were anything else e.g race it wouldn't be a factor. Religion also wouldn't be, I'd trust her and her intelligence to work through it. But I'm really really worried for her.

The parents of a trans child can invite other children for a sleepover. It’s up to those other childrens’ parents if they agree or not.

If the other child's parents do not know that the other child has declared a trans identity and is in fact the opposite sex, it is indeed up to the child who has a trans identity's parents to disclose this.

Really.... are you a parent?

Lets say OP had a DS rather than a DD. And he said he had a new boyfriend and he had been invited to stay in their cottage. It would be bizarre to be OK with that if the boyfriend was a cis boy rather than a trans boy - since it assumes the only reason to stop children who are dating from sleeping together is to stop pregnancy, rather than to stop underage sex that they can’t consent to.

Yes. Male to male relationships is an issue.

The fact that you choose to minimise the scenario faced by a female, by introducing a 'what about the males' situation is rather telling.

Yes I’m a parent. Now perhaps stop obsessing with me and address the issue.

The fact that a child’s ‘romantic partner’ is the opposite sex is irrelevant unless you think the only reason to prevent sexual activity is the risk of pregnancy.

Regardless of a child’s biological sex, at 13 sleepovers should only be happening with a guarantee that there will be no sexual activity.

Either that guarantee is in place or it’s not. If it is then the fact that the child is trans is irrelevant - the sleepover can go ahead. If it’s not in place then the fact that the child is trans is also irrelevant - the sleepover should not go ahead. In both scenarios the child’s trans status is irrelevant.

It is very important for readers following to understand that you are a parent who has this opinion.

Very important to know.

Male to male is an issue.

Female to female is an issue.

Male to female is an issue.

If a child is at risk of sexual activity with someone they are having a sleepover with, then that sleepover should not be happening. End of.

Underage sex isn’t only a problem if the participants are of the opposite biological sex. Which is why biological sex is actually not a relevant factor in deciding whether your child should be allowed a sleepover - what is relevant is whether you trust the other parents to prevent any sexual activity. If you do, biological sex doesn’t matter. If you don’t, then the sleepover shouldn’t go ahead regardless of biological sex.

Your logic only works if you’re fine with a 13 year old girl having sex with another girl or a trans boy, but not with a boy or a trans girl. Any parent who takes safeguarding seriously would not be OK with a 13 year old having sex with any of those people and so would only be allowing them to sleepover where they trust the hosting parents to prevent that.

The opinion that a 13 year old should not be in a position to have sex with anyone, regardless of whether they are the same or the opposite biological sex?

Any parent who thinks otherwise and that underage sex is only to be prevented between children of the opposite sex is negligent IMO and should not have children.

Now perhaps stop obsessing with me and address the issue.

I don’t have an obsession with you. I have addressed the issue.

The thing is. Some parents do allow these sleepovers.

The actions that you are advocating means that a parent making their decision is missing some very significant information.

whether you or I would allow a sleepover is completely irrelevant! Just as it is completely fucking irrelevant as to whether you believe any parent is bigoted or not.

You are advocating that parents of a child that has a trans identity should not disclose to another set of parents the birth sex of their child when that might be a very important piece of information.

That is what you are advocating.

I am saying it doesn’t matter the beliefs of the other set of parents. It doesn’t matter if you think any child should be in that situation.

YOU are advocating that the parents of a child who identifies as trans should not disclose to the other parents the sex of their child.

That is what YOU are advocating for.

HOW DARE YOU BE SO HATEFUL!

I’ve already explained why it’s not a relevant piece of information for any reasonable parent. You haven’t rebutted any of that.

And I don’t think a parents obligations to other parents extends to unreasonable demands for information.

Ok teaklaxon.

not only are you declaring a parent would be bigoted.

But you are declaring that parent A thinking they were sending their child off for a sleepover with an expected same sex child who parent A’s child may be in a romantic relationship with is too unreasonable to be given the rightful respect of getting the full information about the child that parent A’s child is going to stay with.

Because Parent A is an unreasonable parent.

teaklaxon you are very keen on tolerance, but it seems to only go one way.

It it very clear you have swivelled from your previous assertions. But you are still missing the point.

If parents do not want to ‘out’ their child who is trans identified, they should not be inviting other children who are the opposite sex to stay. And frankly if they are unwilling to be honest with other parents about the birth sex of their child, they should not be inviting any child to stay.

why?

Because the parents cannot give consent if it is any situation where it matters to the parent and their child.

Your refusal to see that makes no difference to whether or not it is acceptable safeguarding behaviour.

I’ve already explained why it’s not a relevant piece of information for any reasonable parent. You haven’t rebutted any of that.

I am going to be clear.

It doesn’t matter if those parents are what you consider reasonable. At all!

Your point is merely a distraction that you are trying to use to distract from what you are advocating for.

Just carry on as you are... the chances are the relationship will fade out.
at least there will never be a chance of pregnancy.

😂
I'm dying. Homosexuality now has exactly the same consequences as heterosexuality.
😂

My days.
Anyway while you are all virtue signaling, and being politically correct, a 14 year old girl who is pregnant definitely has a very physical life changing event to deal with and that is why she needs protection.

Whether you don't want your children in same sex relationships at such a young age is more an issue of morality. Yes there are diseases around. I know. I know.

The parents of a child interested in heterosexuality (no matter what fancy words are hiding that sex would lead to a potential pregnancy) need to know what's what!

Hang on? Any situation if it matters to the parent? Any situation?

So let’s say a parent objects to their child having a friend of colour. They come home and ask if they can stay over at Jenny’s house without being clear that Jenny is black. When the parent phones Jenny’s parents to check on arrangements you think Jenny’s mum should clarify that Jenny is black, because it might be relevant to that particular parent?

Or let’s say the parent doesn’t want her DD hanging around with gay kids but Jenny has said she’s a lesbian. Should Jenny’s mum out her because that is relevant for that particular parent?

No - of course not.

Parents hosting a sleepover should disclose reasonably relevant things. A parent who is comfortable with the possibility of their child having underage gay sex at 13 but not straight sex is not a reasonable person (to be clear they should be comfortable with neither). If their decision about a sleepover starts from that premise, that is not reasonable.

Their lack of reasonableness is not other parents’ problem to address.

If the only reason a parent doesn’t want their 13 year old having sex is the risk of pregnancy (or disease) then they are not fit to be a parent.

The far bigger reason to prevent underage sex at 13 is that children are not emotionally ready to comprehend sex and consent at that age. That’s why child abuse doesn’t become ok if the perpetrator wears a condom. FFS why on earth would this need to be pointed out?!

Oh… now with the racist and the homophobic trope.

You cannot pivot away from what you have stated.

you are continuing to attempt distractive techniques.

Eh? Racist and homophobic where?! 😕
The far bigger reason to prevent underage sex at 13 is that children are not emotionally ready to comprehend sex and consent at that age.
I think that's a good point, actually.
It should never be OK for 13 year olds to be having sex at all, whether heterosexual or same sex relationships.
Can't quite believe am having to point that out?!
It doesn't automatically make it OK to have a sleepover at that age if they're in a relationship but same sex.
They're 13 FFS

Really goodjanetbadjanet ? You think you have to point it out?

Have you read other posts, or just chiming in without reading the posts.

I have pointed out that it actually doesn’t matter. teaklaxon has repeatedly said that regardless, the parents of the child /teen staying over at another child/teen’s house where there is a romantic relationship, should not be told the child, who they have given their child permission for the over night stay is of the opposite sex that they expect.

Your moralising on the issue of allowing a child to stay over is irrelevant. Completely irrelevant and separate to what teaklaxon is advocating for.

The far bigger reason to prevent underage sex at 13 is that children are not emotionally ready to comprehend sex and consent at that age. That’s why child abuse doesn’t become ok if the perpetrator wears a condom. FFS why on earth would this need to be pointed out?!

I have already agreed up thread that children/teens should not be in this situation.

The point remains teaklaxon no matter how much you wish to try to distract readers from it.

You have labelled parents bigots and transphobes on the posts deleted.

You are advocating for parents to be left unaware they have given permission for their child/teen to stay overnight at a house where the parents are expecting the other child/teen to be the same sex as their child.

You have also stated that parent of a trans identified child/teen should also put the care of someone else’s child as secondary when that child is in that other child/teen’s house.

Your continued moralising is simply a distraction tactic from what you are advocating for.

Unless and until you can address the fundamental issue you are simply repeating yourself.

The only reason biological sex is relevant to a parent’s decision to allow a sleepover is if that parent is content for the possibility of their child having sex with someone of the same biological sex but not someone of the opposite biological sex.

We should not set our expectations of hosting parents in order to pander to such an unreasonable and irrational position.

You’re the one claiming that a parent hosting a sleepover has an obligation to inform other parents of any information that that parent considers relevant to deciding whether to allow their child to attend. No matter how unreasonable.

Thats not a sustainable position in my view.

It is quite ok teaklaxon . I think I have repeated myself as many times as I need to.

You cannot pivot away from what you have said.

It is all there to read for those reading along.

If you don't know whether the kids your daughter may be sleeping next to have penises or not, you're failing on a fundamental level.

If youre lying or hiding facts about whether your kid has a penis or not, you're doing even worse.

I’m not pivoting at all.

I am very upfront that parents of trans kids are not obliged to put their kids just to placate parents who are fine with underage sex provided it’s with someone of the same biological gender.

Those parents shouldn’t have kids. They certainly shouldn’t be placated. And your constant insistence that those parents should be pandered to remains without any argument.