Amber Heard&Johnny Depp trial

[Miscfeminista]

I wanted to hear more thoughts from women who actually don't accuse Amber for being"a faker". I don't want to tip toe around it or argue with people over same thing over and over while they pretend they are unbiased when in fact they just support Depp.

A lot has already been said and I know you need to have diverse opinions for better conversation etc but on the other thread I am, I'm so tired of people victim blaming and chewing over stuff with little substance so I wanted to make a separate one where we can follow the rest of the trial and outcome with our comments and observations(without constantly arguing about feminist basics).

My last thought was that AH witnesses have been consistent so far and have been wondering if they pulled away from her because they didn't want the drama surrounding it(instead of actually finding her guilty, like Depp fans are suggesting).

I'm following it over Sky over ones with commentary(every day around 1-2 afternoon UK time, 9 in the morning US time I believe..trial ends next week, think someone said 27th)

All observations welcome. What stood out to you so far?

You only care about violence and abuse if it is the basis of a case? I see a lot of posts calling people violent and abusive outside of cases. But Amber shouldn't be responsible for anything she has done because the case isn't about her?

That again is a selective tape recording by JDs team. If you listen to the whole recording it tells a different story. My personal interpretation is that she is saying earlier that she has lots of evidence against him and details some of this. She says her lawyers told her if she shows this he will be prosecuted, she says she's been told the evidence is concrete.

On this basis she says no one will believe him. Not because she is a women and he is a man. He then does say about it not being a fair fight due to their sizes and strength. Again physical differences. No reference to because she is a women.

Mid- no. I happen to think they are both abusers and victims. I think there is no black and white, one innocent, the other guilty. It was a toxic relationship and they were both abusive. I don't excuse her behaviour but the case is not if she was abusive , it is that he was. So in the case of this trial it doesn't matter if she was or wasn't abusive.

I will never watch anything JD is in again. He has done so much damage to his reputation. The way he speaks about women as objects whores, tits, butts, trash. He had a seriously misogynistic attitude which can't be ignored. They are objects based on their looks and trash for him to control. He is an abusive addict who seems to sue or cut contact with anyone who disagrees with him or he thinks has stabbed him in the back.

He has also lied in the court. Imo he is far worse sort of person than AH who is no angel.

You only care about violence and abuse if it is the basis of a case? I see a lot of posts calling people violent and abusive outside of cases. But Amber shouldn't be responsible for anything she has done because the case isn't about her?
What? What do you mean by held responsible?
I'm really only interested in what can be proved factual and at the moment nothing to do with Amber's abusiveness has been tested in court.
Johnny on the other hand has already been judged to be abusive once.

I would be a bit more straightforward-I can forgive women for being nasty as much as we forgive men. If everyone has been peacefully watching JD being a misogynist shit for years and even praised him for it then I absolutley do not mind overlooking to a certain extent physicality and other supposed mistakes/unacceptable behaviour Amber did. Like this over apologising over women who dare to hit their abusive partner makes no sense, I'm a bit tired of it. That's why you have to make up your mind from the get go whether you agree men hold more power-do you consider them being physically, monetarily and socially"stronger"than their women counterparts being an advantage or not? If you do not then by that theory anyone can abuse anyone. A 10 year old kid can abuse his father then. It's just not how power relations work

Really creepy to see how women get praised mostly only when they tear other women down. To read stuff like that she’s a role model for girls”because she has brains and looks”🤦‍♀️ good grief. I wonder how Camille might feel 10-20 years down the line when she looks back on this trial

Also would not be surprised if Dr.Curry was her friend and/or gave her advice on how to provoke Amber, hence the”Yeah right you didn’t get yourself the Aquaman role”comment and that whole weird tactic 🧐

Actually parents do get abused by their children.

There are plenty of cases on this site of children lashing out repeatedly at parents. Some with additional needs that coincide with them being bigger and stronger than expected.

I'm somewhat confused by you stance. Men can't be abused because they are men?

I'm somewhat confused by you stance. Men can't be abused because they are men?

Not what I said, read again. It doesn't make sense to me to reply to soemthing I did not even say

Someone on a previous thread shared the full recording of the phonecall where the clip of her "taunting" JD came from.

Listening to that whole conversation, it didn't come across as taunting, but sheer disbelief that he would claim to be a victim when she had so much evidence of his abuse of her.

I believe her. She sounded very naive (thinking that not naming him in the piece was enough, thinking that people wouldn't disbelieve her if they heard the evidence 😔) but caring of him and the power dynamic in that call seemed very much that that he was controlling.

When she talked about the abusive incidents it did sound like they both knew what she was referring to, and he didn't deny them until winding up at the end for the tape once he thought he had stuff he could use against her, saying they hadn't happened.

She was the victim of physical, sexual, and emotional abuse. She loved him and didn't want him prosecuted. This isn't unusual. She shouldn't have to be silent forever more about the abuse she experienced just because the perpetrator is rich and powerful.

The UK ruling was that it was proved to a civil standard that he had been abusive.

@Fukuraptor agree. As someone said it's not all so simple and no one in this case is perfect either but to me it seems to be clear what is what. In UK trial she seemed more angry, this time around she seems already tired of it. It's like watching different stages of grieving.

Strange to see any supporters coming there at all-if there are some I would think they would be too scared of Depps fans

I don't think it matters, practically, in the end. Neither party is going to be living in penury as a result of the verdict. Beyond that: whether or not it goes Depp's way, or Heard's ... the careers of both will be ruined. We already know he'll not be in any more Disney 'Pirates' films (and he claims he wants nothing to do with them any more, anyway). As for her career: I think that's pretty much it. She never made it as a respected actor and she's too old for modelling. Yet, she'll bow out having made a handsome enough sum.

The real issue - the wider and much more important issue - is what the ramifications will be for the matter of abuse within relationships. Again, no matter what the final verdict, the 'believe women' argument will suffer, hugely, because so many people have watched the trial throughout and utterly believe that, regardless of how bad Depp was and is, Heard herself is clearly an abuser. The fact that Depp lost in the British court-case only fuels the view that the law is skewed in favour of women when it comes to partnership abuse. Or so women across the world seem very strongly to believe. (Men ... it's less easy to know what they believe, on the whole, I've found. They have tended to be less scathing of Heard than women, from what I've seen, though.)

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/may/22/metoo-is-over-if-we-dont-listen-to-imperfect-victims-like-amber-heard

In fact, you could say the whole project of feminism is about taking bad things that happened to women, which they thought only happened to them, or were their fault, and calling them by one name. Divide us back into unlinked individuals who might be lying, and the movement is lost.

DaisyQuakeJohnson · 19/05/2022 00:00

"What stands out most to me is that this case is showing the entire world that abusive men can continue their abuse through the courts. The legal system has always been sexist but Depp and Marilyn Manson are showing that it isn't fit for purpose in these type of cases. Depp's lawyer laughing theatrically at some of Heard's testimony was absolutely sickening."

Yes, the court system is often sexist and most of that sexism is suffered by men.

Men get much harsher sentences than women for the same crimes. It's also racist. Black men get harsher sentences than white men and darker skinned black men get harsher sentences than lighter skinned black men.

I'm not sure how the court system is sexist in this case. Depp is entitled to attempt to clear his name just as Heard is entitled to do the same. Both are suing each other and this case is a direct consequence of her breaking a NDA and signing an article written for her by the ACLU who hoped to get a donation from her which she still hasn't given them.

I should imagine the lawyer is laughing because Heard's lies are laughable by this point.

Ides · Yesterday 22:48

"The real issue - the wider and much more important issue - is what the ramifications will be for the matter of abuse within relationships. Again, no matter what the final verdict, the 'believe women' argument will suffer, hugely"

That's a good thing. The 'believe all women' thing was an appalling idea. You should take every accusation seriously but not just believe any woman who has made an accusation. That is one of the ugliest forms of sexism out there as well as one of the stupidest.

Women are not perfect. We lie just as much as men. In all probability the majority of accusations of abuse made by women will be real but a significant proportion of them won't be and we cannot have a system where men are automatically condemned simply by the word of a woman just because she is a woman.

Miscfeminista · 18/05/2022 19:05

"My last thought was that AH witnesses have been consistent so far and have been wondering if they pulled away from her because they didn't want the drama surrounding it(instead of actually finding her guilty, like Depp fans are suggesting)."

There's another reason why her witnesses/friends left her like rats from a sinking ship. She's a violent, abusive woman. Whatever opinion you have of Depp and the part he played in this we know for a fact that Heard is violent and both physically and verbally abusive.

She has had a physical fight with her ex-friend Rocky. She was constantly abusive to her ex-assistant. She was arrested for hitting an ex-girlfriend. She is on tape saying she hit Depp, threw things at him, couldn't promise not to do so again etc.

She was also violent to her key witness Whitney who is obviously lying for her. There's footage from a reality show where her sister was covered in marks and bruises from a fight and Jennifer Howell said Whitney claimed she had suffered from violence all her life, first from her father and then from Amber.

Don't let your hatred of Depp cloud your judgement of Heard. The best case scenario for TeamAmber is that they were mutually abusive. It's simply ridiculous by this point to pretend that Heard was just a victim of abuse rather than an active participant in it.

Don't be silly @misssatan There is lots of research on the institutional sexism embedded in the courts and the legal system. Perhaps you should take time to read it rather than trying to defend abusive men.

One of my male relatives (I'm sure the fact he's a man will impact on how you view its legitimacy 🙄) who works at a high level within the CPS has just completed yet another study on this matter.

It would be a much more worthwhile use of your time to read research rather than defending abusive men.

I'm also going to let you into a secret - no matter how many posters you tag, or much effort you put into defending abusive men, we still see them and you for what you are.

I'm also going to let you into a secret - no matter how many posters you tag, or much effort you put into defending abusive men, we still see them and you for what you are.

This.

👏👏

I think we may never know to what extent either party was violent to the other or who started it. What is clear from the tape recordings is that both were extremely abusive to one another. They are perhaps very similar personalities, Amber has been diagnosed, rightly or wrongly, with BPD, but it would also seem to me from my armchair diagnosis that Depp has BPD. They both have talked about the relationship as being 'perfect' in the beginning, and this is what those with BPD do, put others on a pedestal and then go to the opposite extreme when they feel that partner has let them down by not living up to their impossible standards, completely devaluing them. Not trying to disparage BPD people here, but this is how the condition presents, and the devaluing is done out of fear of abandonment, which both have shown through recordings and through Depp's jealous behaviour. I think that's why both have tried to have the last word on their relationship, it's compulsive due to the BPD, it's the only way they feel they can get over it. We've heard all their circular, never ending arguments on tape, and they're still going.
Amber has been found to lie and this has been the focus of all the misogynistic media coverage, but what stands out for me is how there has been so little comment on Depp's words and actions. He has spoken in absolutely revolting, misogynistic ways about women in general, and Amber in particular. He laughs off his alcoholism and drug addiction, completely remorseless about the effects it has clearly had on others around him, including documented violent episodes. Living with an addict is absolute hell, and he's in complete denial of how drugs and alcohol clearly affect him. His lifestyle makes him sound like an atrocious partner, having all his hangers on and drug buddies constantly in the family home and being bankrolled, not turning up for his wife's 30th birthday etc. He's so obsessed with getting the last word on his relationship with Amber that he's revealed the real ugly, selfish, misogynistic, cruel, entitled side of his personality for all the world to see, and he doesn't even seem to realise it.

“Unrealistic expectations”…well I guess you can call expecting men not to be misogynistc and violent on average quite unrealistic but that does not indicate any mental illness, rather a reaction to fact that standards are so, so much lower than you could have ever imagined given we all already have low standards. Women aren’t”crazy”, it’s what we have to endure that is so revolting and”normal”at the same time that puts us yet in another situation where we aren’t listened to and made feel like we should not demand any better.

And it is clear he has started with this behaviour-because it’s about asserting dominance, reminding the woman where her place in relationship is. It’s never about a man”rightfully reacting to being wronged”, people seem to forget we don’t do eye for an eye anymore(for example if you got cheated on, you don’t really have the right to hurt or even kill your partner. Crazy I even have to write that). He is acting like that because he thinks he’s doing the right thing-whether he’s outright delusional in some instances or he thinks he can act the way he did because she has done something he didn’t like(argued about not liking something, wanting more independence from him etc). He still believes he was right to hurt her I think, he believes he was the one who was damaged-because he’s the master and you obey; you don’t fight back or insult the master

Apparantley her costar she made movie with long time ago decided it would be good time to make their subscriber list go up so he offered his unwarranted opinion.

I’m thinking ok maybe she lied about the cocaine and some other things but still if you listen to JD you can hear that he is very well capable of what she describes. In fact her”costar friend”describing state she was in fits in nicely with Depp intentionally picking damaged people to be close to him(or so he has bragged about in Rolling Stone article). In case of Amber and Tasya-they were both young women of about same built and not particularly wealthier than each other, even if they had fights it would have been somewhat a fair fight unlike with Depp and Amber-it could have been that either Amber or Tasya were more abusive than the other or it could have been actually just very tumultous relationship with neither of them trying to control and hurt the other person and instead being immature and caught up in drugs and Hollywood(and of course I acknowledge there’s DV in same sex relationships but it isn’t always clear cut to me at least).

I still think that just because she may have lied about some things, doesn’t mean she lied about everything. This desperate guy who probably felt a bit cheated her career went forward(because I have no idea who is he)should rather be quiet at least until trial is over. He’s talking like he knows her whole life, I felt second hand embarassment listening to a 30+ year old guy talking like a 10 year old about someone he used to know for a certain period of time. I wonder if she will respond to him after the trial because he’s gaining traction. Really nasty.

The same guy 🤦‍♀️ like wtf

DaisyQuakeJohnson · Yesterday 11:30

"Don't be silly @misssatan There is lots of research on the institutional sexism embedded in the courts and the legal system. Perhaps you should take time to read it rather than trying to defend abusive men."

Yes, there is a lot of research on institutional sexism embedded in the courts and the legal system and the conclusion of that research is that men do worse than women. Perhaps you should take time to read it rather than trying to defend abusive women.

goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/sentencing-gap-men-likely-go-prison-mrzs/

"One of my male relatives (I'm sure the fact he's a man will impact on how you view its legitimacy 🙄) who works at a high level within the CPS has just completed yet another study on this matter."

Not in the slightest. I don't care if your imaginary relative is a man or a woman. I happen to be a woman myself but, unlike you, don't automatically believe or credit my sex with all the virtues nor the opposite sex with all the vices. I view things on a case by case basis.

It would be a much more worthwhile use of your time to read actual research rather than feminist twaddle and defending abusive women. There is no doubt at all that Heard is a abusive liar, she is on tape admitting her abuse and has a history of physical abuse, all that remains to be seen is if Depp is abusive too.

I'm also going to let you into a secret - no matter how much effort you put into defending abusive women, we still see them and you for what you are.

missatan

those are dreadful statistics

have you read the british ones?

in this country which is the one the CPS poster is probably referring to nearly a third of women are in prison for not paying for their tv licence

Women almost ten times more likely to be convicted for not paying TV licence than men