Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 7

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.

On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Well spoken Ben- it's absurd she thinks she can dismiss the fear element

Yes, I'm just trying to remember the timeline of public awareness.

I realise that FWR isn't representative of the general public 😁

but I'm pretty certain the pro women reporting started after speakers Corner. Which was when? 2017?

But Yes, either way, they should have made it their business to investigate. I suspect what was holding them back was that they were already pro-trans rights, because of their affiliations.

And maybe just took their thinking from their teenage children?

Nobody in chambers would be scared to share GC views . They fucking will now.

NoImAVeronica · 19/05/2022 10:57

I look things up endlessly. I didn't know who Sam Ryder was when I woke up today. Took about three seconds to find out.

Quick bit of advice to anyone who doesn't know either - don't bother googling, there is literally nothing of interest to be found

She's getting choked up again...

There’s a big speech here.

She's on the crime team, so it doesn't affect her? What happens when she has to defend a a trans rapist and call him she? Or is defending his victim?

Does she really still honestly believe this is not going to permeate everyone's life?

violins for me but not for thee

I think The Times was reporting on the general topic further back than 2019. They had reported on the AC case, on issues in academia, and on lottery money allocation for example:

Aug 2018
Rising star of Greens quits deputy race over rapist father

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/db4ae530-a89a-11e8-8688-ded03633f041?shareToken=31583b4f9245e3ad5d548a243b6ff963

Dec 2018
New lottery bonanza for transgender lobby

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2eb353c8-0639-11e9-aef4-fa8d5c1f7f40?shareToken=d1cbcf22642baef8aa3d751bb655935b

Sept 2018
Trans lecturer behind smear campaign

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eb941d92-b2ec-11e8-8fb1-ac438dd6af00?shareToken=90c189c34f7f1b98a81a43a05b9522f3

BC strikes again. Witness losing it.

GCRich
Quick bit of advice to anyone who doesn't know either - don't bother googling, there is literally nothing of interest to be found

Harsh! 😂

Great Umbridge taken with trembly voice, that JK would do anyone down esp. a black barrister of similar background.

Emotional blackmail 101
BC: Very well

"I am a woman of colour, I've come from literally nowhere, I care about race, I care about sex..."

Touched a nerve there didn't he!

And someone on Twitter has just pointed out that Allison Bailey is also on the crime team.

it's got nothing to do with what area you are working, and everything to do with what your belief on reality is.

They are highly successful lawyers FGS. Scrutiny and analysis are their tools of the trade. JK is a judge apparently! If they didn’t look at the detail provided by a colleague in defence of herself/ to support her complaint when they were in the eye of a damaging Twitter storm it’s because they didn’t want to do so.

Christ, the moral outrage! Give me an honest rogue over someone who considers themselves beyond reproach, every time.

"I am a good person!" More righteous indignation. I do feel a little bit sorry for these women tbh, JK and MS yesterday. I think if they'd been more aware of the issues earlier, the outcome for AB could've been different.

I Honestly don't get the pandering on Twitter. That person who got a free dress out of monsoon, for instance. Why? What happens if you just say no?

What have I missed @Datun ?

I'm so grateful for all the comments here, very sad to have work every day and not be able to log in and listen live.

We just got the ''I've been nothing but supportive'' that someone predicted for the bingo card.

Yes, you're right about the time line, it certainly ramped up in the last few years. But i'm pretty sure the times and the mail were reporting on it before then.

Even if they weren't aware before AB raised the issue, it was absolutely an option to engage one's brain and find out. I only became aware because I needed to look into trans rights as part of my job (in around 2017).

That said, "I was too busy to do my job properly" wouldn't be an acceptable excuse in my line work work (teaching).

Back to defining what constitutes a complaint again. I think a lot hinges on this - from my limited comprehension I think it means most of the 'complaints' don't meet the requirements.

I can get on board with JK's point that no one cared about the issue at GCC, but what this meant was it opened the door to a small number of zealots, who cared very much, enabling them to cause all this chaos, and just about everyone else, the no-carers, averted their gaze and let it happen.

Now that the less ideological barristers are being cross-examined over this, they feel shame. Which triggers angry responses.

This model get replicated everywhere.