Got referred to as them/they at work today

[Smurfsurf]

Worked at our company for a few years and recently the "option" to add pronouns to our intranet profiles was added. I've ignored it and I haven't noticed anyone else adding them. Anyway I was copied in on a forwarded email after I'd queried something and I was referred to as them and they a number of times. "Send Smurf this info please and make sure that they know how to do x, they wanted it done recently but have not had the tools to help them do it". That kind of thing.

The person who did this is new and works in HR. I was... surprised. And felt a bit insulted? It felt impersonal. I mean fair enough if someone uses those terms and actually wants others to, whatever.

The person in question is very nice and we've chatted quite a bit but I just felt weird about it all. I'm wondering if this is it now, are they all going to be referring to everyone as they/them by default if they've not put pronouns down? Am also wondering if it was just "assumed" I'm they/them as I am not particularly girly or anything in my appearance but definitely don't come off non binary or anything, at least not that I've thought. But I suspect it might be a thing now especially in HR, I doubt anyone else gives a toss.

I'm a quiet person and hate confrontation so I'm not about to say anything but it bothered me a bit. But if I don't say anything will this give them the green light to continue? But I don't want to put she/her or whatever on my work profile ffs.

The default should be sex based unless you state otherwise. The vast, vast majority use sex based pronouns. Why would you think anything else, unless you’re told otherwise? I’m not going to state my pronouns, that’s for the prople that want to. And then people should respect them and try to use them. For everyone else ..MOST..nothing needs to be done. It’s crazy that everyone has to opt in to something that applies to a few. 😅 We should respect those few, but we don’t all need to state our pronouns to validate them.

Explained her position....you could realise many people are scared of being called transphobic if they do this.

You cannot be this ridiculous.

Your sex was assigned to you at the moment you were conceived!! If you're going to be obtuse, at least learn the terms!

We are talking about toilets though and thats a different argumnet. This is about email pronouns.

Sex based are not "good" to trans people. You are bordering on transphobic here, its clear you have no tolerance for trans but you can't put that on everyone else.

Re the personal attack

"I just pity people like you to be honest. It’s embarrassing even reading your comments. Caring about some but not others but you actually think you’re being inclusive. Laughable."

No?

Yes, its much better to ignore the email and then moan about the outcome.

I wouldnt have an issue with someone refusing their pronouns at work, because I think it outs people who might not want to be.

Or.....imagine....TALK to the person. OP has no idea who authorised it, and has decided its someone in HR, but she actually has no idea.

Here we go with the transphobic shouts.

Sex isn’t assigned.

Trans people are just people. But we shouldn’t all have to state pronouns when sex based are applicable to most. By stating my pronouns as if theres s possibility they could be anything but sex based, means I am giving headspace to gender ideology and I won’t. I don’t buy into gender so what else would my pronouns be? Unless of course people can’t tell I’m female, in which case they can approach me and I will have no issue in stating my sex. Trans people/other that want to, should state their pronouns if they wish to and they should be respected.

Its not a personal attack to say I pity someone and find their comments laughable. If I don’t laugh I might cry. 😬

😂😂😂

Thd OP is only ‘moaning‘ because people have not defaulted to sex based pronouns. It’s crazy that her workplace hasn’t when sex based pronouns apply to almost everyone. And if OP wanted different pronouns, including ‘they’, then OP would have replied to the mail.

Your sex was assigned to you at the moment you were conceived!! If you're going to be obtuse, at least learn the terms!

It's you who needs to learn the terms. You don't appear to understand what the word 'assign' means. It means to deliberately allocate or transfer (usually for a purpose). Nobody 'assigns' a sex to a person, any more than they 'assign' skin colour, eye colour or any other genetic characteristics.

To say a doctor assigns your sex at birth would mean the doctor was choosing/allocating a sex for you. Who do you think is choosing people's sex at conception? God?

Trans rights activists talk about assigning gender (not sex) at birth - by which they seem to mean that when a doctor notes that a baby is a girl, what the doctor means is 'this is a girly human who will like pink, glitter, unicorns and pillow fights'. Rather than what the doctor actually means, which is 'This baby is a biological female'.

@stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou you can have sex and vote at 16, so does all of the self realisation happen on the 11th hour of your 15th year?

Are......are you trying to justify paedophilia?????? WTAF

God. Nothing useful to add at all, but I'm glad I don't have a job if it means having to encounter all this pronoun bollocks.

PRONOUNS ARE NOT SEX BASED.

APologies for the shouting.

Would she though? would she? if she was a trans in hiding (who could blame them) and didnt want to share it with the whole offfice, most of whom, given covid, she hasnt met!

I cant imagine why someone might think that a bunch of strangers would ridicule them.

yeah, thats what im trying to do.

No. (in case, as it appears, you're daft enough to think im being serious).

My point was..........

a PP claimed a person cant possibly know themselves at 13.

So when can they?

If they cant by 16 (where they can have sex or vote, so one would assume they know themselves) when?

No, no it doesnt.

I was 'assigned' someone for secret santa last year using a bloody automated machine. I was 'assigned' a number from bloody ARGOS for an order.

I'm not sure if you missed sex education, but your chromosomes do.
If its the doctor at birth, would you like to explain to me how people know thyre having a girl or boy?

Btw, gender is not assigned at birth. If a TRA has claimed this, they're talking nonsense.

The rest of your post is absolute bollocks.

I completed my LGBTY Scotland training in schools earlier last week. So I'm well aware what these terms mean.

You are getting you info from?

Pardon me? sex isnt assigned?
Dictionary definition
attribute something as belonging to.

Are you telling me your sex isnt assigned at conception? are you under the impression you live as a sexless being until you are born?

Sex based is appliable to most, you are quite right.

however for trans........IT ISN'T. IT ISNT SEX BASED FOR TRANS. THATS WHAT TRAS IS.

It's ridiculous you claim the pronouns should be respected in which case you dont seem to understand what pronouns even are. THEY DONT WANT TO KNOW YOUR SEX. THEY WANT TO KNOW YOUR GENDER.

the fact you dont buy into gender unfortunately doesnt make you the queen, and heres a shocking fact.

People dont agree with you.

I dont know what youve got to cry about, with views like that.

Sex is observed at birth. It’s there to see. Biology and all that innit. 🤓Your sex depends on how chromosomes combine.

You agree that sex based pronouns work for most, therefore it makes sense and is most efficient for the small number of others wishing to use other pronouns to let others know. I’m very happy to use whatever anyone would like me to.

People can’t know my gender I’m afraid, as I don’t have one. So that puts us in a bit of a pickle. My sex is female and I use sex based pronouns.

Lots of people do agree with me.

You don’t know what I have to cry about? well a world in which kids can’t state biological facts in case they’re called transphobic is quite sad. But no I won’t cry, I just laugh at the ridiculousness.

Sex matters, sex is real. Without sex the concept of trans wouldn’t exist.

Can you explain how someone knows they are hcing a boy before the birth?

"kids cant state biological facts"
ignorance passed by adults.

You are very ignorant that is clear to see.

ugh get a life love honestly

Observing genitals on a scan or observing chromosomes on more invasive procedures. Nothing being assigned.

Many kids are scared to state facts, some that do get shouted down as transphobic. Many feel forced into announcing pronouns. I know a headteacher that’s tied themselves up in knots over a biology lesson on puberty...that table the kids learn about what boys and girls experience whilst going through puberty. Hilarious to see but it just shows how messed up it all is. Clubs for LGBT at lunchtime where gay children have been made to feel unwelcome and called transphobic for not wanting to date members of the club that are trans. Dreadful times for our children.

Can you explain how someone knows they are hcing a boy before the birth?
is this a serious question? I've lost a baby before the end of the first trimester, the doctors who tested to determine a cause still knew exactly what sex the baby was (I asked not to be told).

If you Google “sex assigned at birth” you’ll find lots of sources explaining what it means and demonstrating that this is a commonly used term these days.

Are you telling me your sex isnt assigned at conception? are you under the impression you live as a sexless being until you are born?

No, it's determined at conception.
The various definitions of 'Assign' imply an act of will, someone deliberately making an assignation. 'Assign' simply isn't the right word for the result of a sperm carrying an x rather than a Y chromosome fertilising an ovum.
This may seem pedantic to you, but in the world of people idiotically talking about 'gender being assigned at birth' , words matter. It's not at birth, and it's not 'assigned'.

Just because a word is commonly used wrongly doesn't make it right.

Sex is determined at conception and observed at birth (or before, thanks to scans, amniocentesis etc... my daughters chromosomes had been checked before birth)

This thread is unreadable because of the nested quotes thing. Shame as I think I would have found it interesting.

I agree Errol. Was just trying to point Stop to sources she might trust as she was seemed to be unaware that “sex assigned at birth” was commonly used by LGBTQ organisations

Ah, right. Unfortunately it's been adopted by other organisations which should know better too.

Was this for me? If so, I’m aware of who wants to push this term, but it’s not a correct one.