Got referred to as them/they at work today

[Smurfsurf]

Worked at our company for a few years and recently the "option" to add pronouns to our intranet profiles was added. I've ignored it and I haven't noticed anyone else adding them. Anyway I was copied in on a forwarded email after I'd queried something and I was referred to as them and they a number of times. "Send Smurf this info please and make sure that they know how to do x, they wanted it done recently but have not had the tools to help them do it". That kind of thing.

The person who did this is new and works in HR. I was... surprised. And felt a bit insulted? It felt impersonal. I mean fair enough if someone uses those terms and actually wants others to, whatever.

The person in question is very nice and we've chatted quite a bit but I just felt weird about it all. I'm wondering if this is it now, are they all going to be referring to everyone as they/them by default if they've not put pronouns down? Am also wondering if it was just "assumed" I'm they/them as I am not particularly girly or anything in my appearance but definitely don't come off non binary or anything, at least not that I've thought. But I suspect it might be a thing now especially in HR, I doubt anyone else gives a toss.

I'm a quiet person and hate confrontation so I'm not about to say anything but it bothered me a bit. But if I don't say anything will this give them the green light to continue? But I don't want to put she/her or whatever on my work profile ffs.

Non binary certainly appears to be a trend. I imagine that I am not alone in noticing that entire friendship groups discover that they are all non binary at around the same time, in the case of some young people I know they all identified as bisexual the year before they all realised that in fact they were non binary. Now they (plural) talk about men and non men. They (plural) are of course non binary non men.

Personally I wouldn’t think too much about it just now as it might be a figure of speech rather than anything more.

I do use they both verbally and in emails when I know the sex of the person, indeed I used it on the phone tonight to my mum about a sibling - “no idea what they’re up to.”

It maybe something as simple as that but keep an eye out just in case it’s a bit more.

BIsexuality and gender are two completely different entities, though.

If you think the person in HR came up with this themselves, you are deluded.

Maybe the person is just following company policy. Or maybe the person is a believer and is choosing to embrace something that hasn't actually been imposed. I find it hard to believe many companies would go as far as making it mandatory for employees to call all other individual employees 'they' when they are referring to a specific person.

I mean, I don't work in an office, but I don't think a member of HR has the power to bring policy in for the banter.

They didnt make it mandatory.

They asked for pronouns and OP didnt give one, so they went for they.

Just as others like to be referred to as They and Them and will say so, o would say I’d preferred to be called by name or referred to as she or her

Why is the default not sex based pronouns? Gender believers are generally desperate to tell you their pronouns, pretty safe to assume if someone doesn’t, then they’re happy with good old fashioned sex based ones. They don’t need stating, they just are.

But theyre not going to assume are they.

What if OP is trans and doesnt want to tell anyone and doesnt want outed, but doesnt want to lie?

They is better than misgendering or outing.

If she just answered the bloody question, she'd have been fine.

Nobody is "desperate" to tell you anything, thats not a nice phrase really.

I’m not concerned with being nice, I’m concerned with reality. Pronouns are sex based unless you want to tell someone different. If someone called me ‘they’, I’d just think 🙄 No time for the bullshit at work, let me get on with my job. The reason people are saying just answer the question is because of gender. I don’t buy into gender ideology, so why would I answer. People have managed to correctly tell my sex for 40 years.

If non-binary people in need of they pronouns are a real thing, then it's no more neutral to call someone they than it is to use sex based pronouns.

yes, but its not all about you.

Of course it is! they implies neither male nor female.

I don’t have to validate other people’s ideology. I don’t live my life doing that.

Why would someone assume I’m not male or female just because a very, very small minority identify that way? Why is it ok for them to assume I’m not female? That assumes I buy into gender and I don’t. It’s all set up for gender isn’t it. I could be quite offended. 🙄 Like when I’m called cis, how the fuck can I be cis when I have no gender and don’t believe in it. But apparently it’s ok for me to be called that by others. The whole thing is tiresome.

Because its better to call you they (since you dont believe in it anyway) than call you she and be wrong.

Re cis - I work in a school and it was part of our training. You can find it offensive all you want, it's a recognised term.

yes, but its not all about you.
oh, the irony.

Brilliant, thanks for the input @lane

Listen to yourself. Who says it’s better to call me they? Certainly not me. Why is no one worrying about my ‘feels’? As for cis, if you don’t believe in gender ideology then cis can’t be a thing and if it offensive. Again why do my feelings not matter, only other people’s? 🤔

I just pity people like you to be honest. It’s embarrassing even reading your comments. Caring about some but not others but you actually think you’re being inclusive. Laughable.

🤣 It’s really lost on some isn’t it. So busy being inclusive that they don’t see how they’re excluding huge amounts of people. I just laugh at them, what else can you do. 🤡

Cis female is identifying with the sex you were born with.

Re your second paragraph - I DONT AGREE WITH PRONOUNS, in a work place. I can just see why they've responded the way they have.

I just don't like the way we speak about trans people.

Course your feelings bloody matter! I'm pointing out that no one is doing it to be an arse. I wouldn't call you it because I know people find it offensive on here. But explain that to my 65 year old colleague who did 2 and a half hour training on Monday and as part of that had to explain what a cis woman is!

Your personal attack doesn't bother me, because you've got me wrong in the first place.

OP excluded herself!

No she didn’t. She chose to stay with the system that’s been in place for years. The one which doesn’t require us to state pronouns. Those that wish to volunteer them should, those that don’t should be referred to by sex based pronouns.

If anyone can’t tell my sex...lol....then they can contact me.

No, no she didn't.

She IGNORED the email. It's in the OP. She could have emailed back and explained her position. So they've gone with they to cover their arse.

it's not about telling sex, you're being obtuse here.

No, Cis apparently describes a person who has a gender identity that matches their sex ‘assigned’ at birth. Being as I have no gender and my sex was observed by looking at my genitals, rather than randomly assigned by a doctor with her eyes shut, please tell me how I’m cis. 😂

The way ‘we’ speak about trans people? I speak about them as I would any other human being. At work, they should be getting on with their job, same as anyone else. It’s no business of mine how people present, I’ll use their pronouns if they let me know what they have opted for. They shouldn’t get to influence mine in any way, sex based are good. Obviously, trans people should use the work toilets that align with their sex.

personal attack....okay. 😜