Got referred to as them/they at work today

[Smurfsurf]

Worked at our company for a few years and recently the "option" to add pronouns to our intranet profiles was added. I've ignored it and I haven't noticed anyone else adding them. Anyway I was copied in on a forwarded email after I'd queried something and I was referred to as them and they a number of times. "Send Smurf this info please and make sure that they know how to do x, they wanted it done recently but have not had the tools to help them do it". That kind of thing.

The person who did this is new and works in HR. I was... surprised. And felt a bit insulted? It felt impersonal. I mean fair enough if someone uses those terms and actually wants others to, whatever.

The person in question is very nice and we've chatted quite a bit but I just felt weird about it all. I'm wondering if this is it now, are they all going to be referring to everyone as they/them by default if they've not put pronouns down? Am also wondering if it was just "assumed" I'm they/them as I am not particularly girly or anything in my appearance but definitely don't come off non binary or anything, at least not that I've thought. But I suspect it might be a thing now especially in HR, I doubt anyone else gives a toss.

I'm a quiet person and hate confrontation so I'm not about to say anything but it bothered me a bit. But if I don't say anything will this give them the green light to continue? But I don't want to put she/her or whatever on my work profile ffs.

"They" can be singular when you are referring to one person but don't know who they are specifically or don't know their sex.

So you can say "I need an appointment with a GP, I hope they will be able to diagnose what's wrong with me".

You could also say "I have an appointment with Dr Williams, what room are they in?" if you've never met them and don't know their sex.

It's a bit odd to say, "I saw Claire yesterday, they looked amazing!", when you know Claire and know she is female.

Reading that I'd have assumed it was incorrect grammar usage and not intentional pronouns. I used to write they/their as singular and it wasn't until university that it was pointed out as incorrect.

Ii think they can be colloquial.

People say how are they in themselves all the time.

Or, they're being cautious because yoj didnft bother replying, they didnt want to offend you (and you're complaining about them again).

No

Standard practice

I'm sure you gave the staff room a chuckle.

It might feel off but that's only because we are fixated on ( unnecessary) sex distinction in pronouns

They has been used in singular form since Shakespeare times

One of those factoids people keep bringing up as a "grammar" counter-argument, along the lines of validating split infinitives.

But it omits the fact that it is conventionally used for indeterminate/generic individuals. How many examples are there of it being used for a specific known person of known sex, rather than some indeterminate person?

That's the main jarring point for me - if I see a "they" there's an implication that it can't be referring the known individual of known sex that was just identified. If there's no generic individual being discussed, I'm left looking for plural referants.

Well it was used quite a lot in the 70s and 80s by the older generations who liked to pretend they couldn't see a person with long hair and make up was male 😀

Singular 'they' has a sensible pedigree, to be fair, when addressing people of both sexes collectively.

For example, if I organised a school trip, I might say, in an email home to parents, something like: 'Your child needs to ensure they have checked the kit list...we suggest that they bring X amount of pocket money...if they are being collected from the airport rather than being dropped back to school, please inform Ms Bloggs' etc etc. It's a reasonable alternative to 'he/she' when you're writing to & about a mixed sex group, & arguably less clumsy to read.

Addressed to an individual, it's an entirely different thing. I do get that.

I would tend to let it go. My argument is very much that pronouns are the business of the speaker, & no one gets to control how they (hmm) are referred TO. I think the only consistent position on this is that if someone chooses to 'they' everyone in sight, crack on. If I chose to object to that & say 'no, I want you to be calling me she/her' then I'm buying in.

It's opting in to the pronoun nonsense. I won't have my language policed, & nor will I play along by stating pronouns that I want other people to use for me, so if that means I get called 'they', whatever.

I suspect that it'll go one of two ways. Either a backlash & everyone refuses to use non intuitive pronouns & reverts to basing them on sex, or we all become accustomed to universal 'they' as a polite professional standard.

I can't see either of these greatly pleasing people who feel strongly about 'their' pronouns, fwiw.

I agree with that

Is everyone at your workplace now addressed as 'they' in emails? I'd take it may be a blanket approach which I'd ignore. I'd be watching however if unisex toilets follow, and they are certainly something I am not comfortable with ..

No, just the ones who thought they (oh i used it again - but entirely accidentally in the sense that its plural) thought they were awfully clever in ignoring a request and then were surprised to find that they were given no say. Imagine. The person should have course have used their mystical powers to work out what OP wanted

I agree with that, actually.

How does one identify a they from a they, if you will?

If OP's awkward non commital childish ways make her (presumably) a they, is this not in turn offensive to someone who identifies as a they (and isnt awkward and childish?) Interesting thought.

I'm not a fan on the basis that it might out someone. You might have someone in the workplace who is trans or gender fluid and doesn't want to discuss it yet, and they have to lie or be outed.

Incidentally, I would use they for a someone I know.

I might say I saw your neighbour the other day, they were telling me...don't know why really.

Did you bother to read the post I was responding to? It suggested that because of the increased usage due to gender ideology, there was a more general change happening in language even when that is not part of the reasoning.

I'm not sure why you think I am saying biological sex isn't important, I said no such thing.

This is the first time I've seen or heard of it. I've never noticed it even in HR, so either this is the way things are going or something that the new HR person has used before I guess.

Everyone is pretty down to earth there, this is the first indication of pronouns raising its (sorry, their) head.

when creating online systems it is easier to apply they/them to all users than to ask for and apply the pronouns of individuals

I've noticed this with my kid's report cards from the school. The teachers make them up but they have specific phrases they are supposed to use, and do a lot of copy/paste. Weirdly they don't all use they all the time, I get them with half the pronouns as she and half they.

Can one not use pronouns if theyre down to earth?

No, just the ones who thought they (oh i used it again - but entirely accidentally in the sense that its plural) thought they were awfully clever in ignoring a request and then were surprised to find that they were given no say. Imagine. The person should have course have used their mystical powers to work out what OP wanted
That's funny, most of us have been using these "mystical powers" all our lives to work out whether someone was a man (he/his) or a woman (she/her). Our mystical powers also tell us the pronouns normally associated with anyone who is trans or NB, but we politely defer to the alternate ones they want to use if they ask us.

Right, so you don't choose them then.

The trouble is, if your position (like mine) is "I don't want to state my pronouns. I don't believe in gender woo, and think it's ridiculous when people act like it's literal violence if you call them by the 'wrong' pronoun"..... then getting shirty when people call you by the wrong pronoun seems a bit hypocritical.

I know, I know - we all know who's a woman and who's a man and we've all been perfectly capable of knowing which sex-based pronouns to use since forever, but if some woke twerp in HR insists they can't tell whether you're a man or a woman, what can you do (other than actually give in and tell them which pronouns to use!)?

Non binary at thirteen??? How on earth can a 13yr old know they're 'non-binary?!'

When is this trend going to be over??

"woke twerp"

Nice.

If you think the person in HR came up with this themselves, you are deluded.

In the real world, we take our orders. Unlike on MN wher ethey claim that in my position they would march up to young children and tell them exactly what they thought.

It's not a trend.

Is there a specific age then, where you realise you're non binary?

you can have sex and vote at 16, so does all of the self realisation happen on the 11th hour of your 15th year?

sounds like an email referring to you between two other parties.

they / them is gender neutral and I wouldn't personally have any problem with someone who doesn't know for sure what my preferred pronoun is.