Help with talking to a 12 yr old about trans issues

[GoingOnce]

My son has a friend whose sister is apparently now his brother. I sense my son wants to talk to me about this and I want to have the right language to engage sensibly in a conversation. He has swallowed whole the ideology that people can change their gender as this has been “explained” to them at school. The child does not attend my son’s school but still attends a girls school - whilst going by a new name, wearing an adapted and having a special toilet assigned just for them.

The child in question (and the entire family) is struggling. There is self-harm and have been suicide attempts. I do not want to criticise them or their child. But I do want my child to realise that they are being presented with one narrative here. (I am quite certain the parents are simply going along with the whole thing because they are terrified of their child’s mental state and what they might do next. I feel very sorry for them).

Any advice for how I can discuss this sensibly? I can’t believe at age 12 we are already having to talk about all this.

I didn't like it being called a co-morbidity, and it escalated from there. If you read recent posts I have spoken to Wanda more about this.

Where I work, neuro diverse have a lot of access to support. I'm probably the opposite way around to Wanda - ie that support for autism is abundant but lacking for transgender at times.

Its not deliberately obtuse. It was over sensitive, and I've acknowledged that several times.

"The autism references hurt me."

You are telling a woman who is autistic and who has autistic children that her comments about autism hurt YOU, a non autistic person?

Can you hear yourself?

Agree 100%
When I was that age eating disorders were normal. I learnt that from others and them was bulimic for years

Wanda, I really despair.

The rest of my post was an acknowledgment that I was wrong, over sensitive, respect given to you, an acknowledgment of my wrong words...and you choose that one quote , one sentence, and ignore what was actually an acknowledgment that the references hurt me and I need to actually figure out why and deal with that?

You are something else.

PS - Quote where I said I'm not autistic.

I'm done, You are deliberately trying to make me out to be awful now. I won't be interacting with you again.

Please read my full response to Wanda. I will post it here for the 9am pile on which Wanda has incited.

I think parents of autistic children do a wonderful job. It's not easy. And (imagine, me as the male champion!) think autistic women face more barriers than autistic men. I really do admire you at that level.

We can disagree on topics though, we're human.

I just don't think it's black and white. The autism references hurt me. I guess that's my own....barriers?

That was my quote in full, for anyone who read's Wandas incendiary, spiteful post which was cherry picked to make me look awful because I disagree with her views.

Ah stopwaiting not again! It is possible to disagree with someone without calling their posts “incendiary and spiteful”!

When you said “imagine, me as the male champion!” What did you mean by that?

You've called me quite a lot of names so far.

Did you just say you are male?

I would tend to agree, as a neurodivergent parent of neurodivergent children, that gender non-conformity is part and parcel of neurodivergency. But this is anecdotal.

Also, @stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou ,
I periodically cry hot tears for a 19 year old damaged girl who used to almost live here. Who now has a beard and no breasts, and is apparently not massively happier

Also know a young man on estrogen, lovely and damaged, and still as unhappy.

I know they all believe it, they all come from a good place, but children/teenagers are not famous for good risk assessment skills, and sadly these do need to be utilised.

You really need to go to bed @stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou because you are pissing everyone off.

@stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou

Of course you can be attracted to a gender! thoughts, feelings, the way they express themselves.

As a man (I think you've just said you are one if I'm not mistaken), what thoughts and feelings do you think women have that straight men are attracted to that other men don't possess?

It's a genuine question as many of us don't understand the logic this kind of statement but see it said a lot and are called transphobic if we try to understand it.

So if a straight men are same gender attracted rather than same sex attracted (in your opinion), what are the signifiers of gender (the thoughts, feelings and way they express themselves that you mentioned) specific to women?

Wanda cherry picked one sentence from my post to make me look absolutely awful. Sorry, I'm not backing down.

Incidentally, you've done the same.

To start with, girls/women's clothes tend to be scratchy and prioritise form over comfort. So as a neurodivergent person I tend to shop for as many clothes as I can I a mens' section, especially as I'm tall, remove the labels and I'm good!

That doesn't mean I, or my daughter, are men, we just prefer utilitarian clothes. But, weirdly, my daughter is getting questions if she's trans all the time.

If, however, she said she is trans, I would question it, as I don't believe anyone is 'born in the wrong body', and telling her, a disabled child, that she was born wrong is not something I would ever consider acceptable.

No.

And I haven't called you any names.

I was very positive about you.

There is a difference between being personal and not liking posts. It's you who seems to struggle with that .

I don't need to do anything.

Everyone? You?

Il cope.

I said, very sarcastically, that im a male champion because posters attribute you to be one if you dare to move away from the narrative.

I'm not a man.

Il answer your question though.

I think that some people are gender rather than sex attracted. Is that so outrageous?

Yes, including me. You're not a parent and you're patronising those of us who live with teenagers 24/7. Give it a rest. You're embarrassing.

Sorry, I mean she's got a physical disability diagnosed in utero, as well as being neurodivergent

Could you quote where I said I'm not a parent?

I don't disagree.

@stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou

I asked you a genuine question, politely, so your tone is unnecessarily snarky tbh.

But putting that to one side, this is what I find tough - I asked a very specific question politely but you didn't answer it. And that means I can't listen and understand more than I do now, which is what I would like to do.

I asked "what thoughts and feelings do you think women have that straight men are attracted to that other men don't possess?"

And you answered:

I think that some people are gender rather than sex attracted. Is that so outrageous?

I understand the words you're saying of course but I don't understand what you mean and I'm genuinely trying to.

If people are same gender attracted and as you say earlier for you that means attracted to the specific thoughts and feelings of a particular gender, what are some examples of thoughts and feelings specific to women?

I'm engaging in good faith to try to have a meaningful dialogue so please don't imply I'm being dismissive or accusing you of being 'outrageous'. I can't understand someone's opinion on a deeper level if they are unwilling to engage in good faith too.

I wasn't being snarky. I've read my post back. If you're willing to say what you thought was snarky il address that.

I do like that word.

That aside - I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean by specific to women.

I only ever said i thought you could be attracted to gender and not sex.

Including you.

So you.

Again. Il cope.

Do you have a response to the OP, or?