Help with talking to a 12 yr old about trans issues

[GoingOnce]

My son has a friend whose sister is apparently now his brother. I sense my son wants to talk to me about this and I want to have the right language to engage sensibly in a conversation. He has swallowed whole the ideology that people can change their gender as this has been “explained” to them at school. The child does not attend my son’s school but still attends a girls school - whilst going by a new name, wearing an adapted and having a special toilet assigned just for them.

The child in question (and the entire family) is struggling. There is self-harm and have been suicide attempts. I do not want to criticise them or their child. But I do want my child to realise that they are being presented with one narrative here. (I am quite certain the parents are simply going along with the whole thing because they are terrified of their child’s mental state and what they might do next. I feel very sorry for them).

Any advice for how I can discuss this sensibly? I can’t believe at age 12 we are already having to talk about all this.

I completely agree with this.

Kids are so sweet and accepting arent they. They dont tend to do the critical thinking bit till later. I guess thats why adults are able to do stuff like father christmas and the tooth fairy too

Little children tend to accept what adults tell them. Not very long ago, all sane, kind grownups told little children that boys had winkies and girls didn't, and the children accepted that. That was also no big deal.

What are you going to say when they learn more about human biology and become aware that people cannot change sex and she cannot be a boy?

I've encountered it all - I'm also ASD, so is my partner.
Ultimately it's not a superpower to have racing thoughts, anxiety, a difficulty processing information, issues with fitting in socially, difficulty eating because of textures, difficulty getting dressed because of seams and labels and sounds.

People sometimes say it as a kindness. But superpowers don't allow a child access counselling and support service.

There's so many ways that the transgender beliefs can take hold in autistic kids - especially the girls who are desperately trying to socialise and fit in with a group of girls. This outsider feeling can be accounted for when the child stumbles across videos, when they are pressured by their friend group etc. It's so obvious that it's painful to watch.

To lie to these children about changing sex is unethical - it's been sold as an answer - a solution - a fact.

Sorry @Bearinatree - that sent before I was finished - I was wanting to say I agree - there's no shame in being Autistic - and it's just a normal thing in life to have a percentage of people who have it.

As an aside - the schools according to my kids never focus on autism awareness which many of the kids have and instead devote a disproportionate time to TQ awareness and promotion.

This is a false equivalence.

You don't believe in god so you can say some people do believe in god.

Some people think 'gender' is a special innate feeling like a soul. I personally think that's like believing there is a god.

Some people are Christians because that is their BELIEF system.
Some people are genderists because gender identity ideology is their BELIEF system.

There is zero proof of either God or innate gender so no one else needs to go along with it.

Telling children that any experience of discomfort with their sexed bodies, or mental illness means they are 'transgender' is nonsense.

Telling children that they can change or choose their sex is absurd.

Telling girls that being a girl is determined by feelings, appearance or preferences is pure misogyny.

This current social contagion amongst teenage girls with poor mental health is simply the new, socially acceptable and, even worse, actively encouraged, self harm.

What are you going to say when they learn more about human biology and become aware that people cannot change sex and she cannot be a boy?

Yes the truth has to cone out sometime. If my dd said she could fly its all very well playing along that she can. Fine while all she's doing is jumping off the sofa. I might want to tell her the truth before she starts jumping out her bedroom window though.

Same with this. Might seem harmless with a name. But how far do you let it go? Being allowed to change with the boys at school? Risking deformities from binders ? Mastectomies? Peeing into a bag for months because the phalloplasty didbt go quite according to plan.

If parents, teachers, drs all fail to be honest then who will?

How much damage is acceptable in the name of " being kind" ?

Living as a boy/girl is nothing more than adopting harmful outdated stereotypes coupled with irreversible damage from hormones binders and surgeries ro achieve the impossible.

There's points to be earnt, certificates to display , money to be made etc but it's all lies.

If you love and care for someone you tell them.the truth. Even if that truth hurts. Because if you don't someone.else will amd quite possibly not in the nicest, most appropriate, or safe way.

The way I have explained it is that some people would like to be the opposite sex. But humans can't change sex. Some people believe that encouraging children to think that they can change sex is kind but I don't think it is kind. Because those children are going to be very disappointed when they're older.

It's fine for children to wear what they want and do their hair however but we can't change sex. So if a boy in your class (like W who you now call G) wants to wear the girls' school uniform, that's fine. It's not fine for him to use the girls' changing rooms or girls' toilets though because it wouldn't be fair on the girls.

Incidentally, my autistic child has been told he is transphobic by some of his more woke classmates as he has occasionally forgotten that W is now called G and has occasionally forgotten to use female pronouns. He is also very irritated by the fact that G not only doesn't wear boys uniform, he doesn't wear any uniform. He is allowed to wear what he wants, including a beenie hat. My child thinks this is monstrously unfair. And I have to say I agree and I don't believe is doing G any favours at all.

Ps I think autism can sometimes be a superpower. That ability to cut through bullshit, to question the way some people twist the meaning of words, is breathtaking. I have learned so much. But at the same time, it can be so hard and so exhausting navigating a neurotypical world. And I worry for him.

The way I have explained it is that some people would like to be the opposite sex. But humans can't change sex. Some people believe that encouraging children to think that they can change sex is kind but I don't think it is kind. Because those children are going to be very disappointed when they're older.

That seems like a good answer to the OP.

That seems like a good answer to the OP

Its not even just about being disappointed. Its coming to the realisation that everyone they know loved and trusted has lied to them. Who benefits from children becoming isolated and mis trusting of the adults with a duty of care around them? Where does that leave the child?

As a parent/teacher/Dr you are not there to be their best friend . To be liked every second of every day. Therr are days when your child hates you. Wishes they had anyone but you as a parent. But your jib remains the same. To he honest akd protect them from all the things they are not old enough, mature enough or clued up enough to be able to protect themselves from. Even if that means they hate you. Because one day they will grow up have families of their own and be thankful you did not Rob them of the chance to do that befire they had any real sense if what it is they were giving up by following this path

Yes you're absolutely right of course. What I've found works well with teens though is letting them come to that realisation themselves. Tread lightly.

Affirmation can have disastrous consequences

I think coming to the conclusion themselves may well have been possible when we were kids. Debate was encouraged. My favourite lessons in high school were those where we sat in a big circle and discussed often quite adult topics. Abortion, euthanasia, birth control etc. We all managed to do so even with opposing views. Because we actually had to have an explanation /thought process behind those opposing views. It actually helped alot because even if we disagreed we could understand why they felt that way beyond " it's unkind" " I feel unsafe" " ill hurt myself if you don't let me do X" .

Its no coincidence that along side this introduction , any questions, discussions etc are shut down. There are no coherent explanations or non circular definitions of terms. People are merely called transphobes/terfs and told to shut up.

There is no way for teens to explore both sides of the arguments or ask fir the facts to make their minds up.

There is literally no choice for young people now to either go along with it to keep the peace or stay quiet and watch their friends damage their bodies and be encouraged to live in their delusions.

I'm not a new poster @WandaWomblesaurus

I de registered during covid.

I didn't ask anyone to stop talking about it. Enough with the boring narrative that anyone who is not in perfectly the dame view just wants to shut women up.

You can discuss what you like. I'm allowed to disagree. You don't own the forum..

Incidentally I'm regularly told I'm wrong! I don't take offence though, cause I'm not that egotistical!

Everyone, everyone, is entitled to an opinion. You guys riding rough shod isn't a discussion.

I don't know where to start. Your post ranges from ignorant to downright offensive, @Whatsnewpussyhat

If adult posters on the Internet can't accept opinions other than their own, I'm not sure how you think kids would fare.

Your suggestion only works because you seem to think the majority of kids would be anti trans (your false narrative of kids threatening suicide rtc).

Stories and statistics of trans kids are quite different to the real world.

Incidentally, I'm on another similar thread and I have taken on board everyone else's but been called wrong, misinformed and been spokem about rudely because i think trans is a grey issue it's not us doing the shutting down (and I certainly don't agree with anyone calling anyone a terf). There is a thread running now where a woman asked if she was a bigot because of a view which I strongly disagree with. My post was to say i disagree with her views but I'm very sorry she's been called a bigot. I have not been shown the same respect.

But that's what the trans charity are doing. Holding unconsenting members of the public responsible for the mental health of others.

You have yet to explained why a verbal declaration of an unverifiable, undefined , state of being should override everything to the point safguarding can be disregarded. And why anyone ekse has to be involved?

No one else is responsible fir validating anyones identity. Identity is irrelevant to normal.social.rules and single sex spaces.

If no one can define the terms beyond circular definitions and compelled speech then kids should be left out of all if it tbh.

You're correct.

Thanks for that. I appreciate someone actually reading what I'm saying and not making things up!

@TeamSukhareva @WandaWomblesaurus

I don't agree with the superpower thing, but I strongly disagree with people throwing self harm , suicide and autism into eberu argument.

This child is 12.

Posters want to show how wonderfully right they are about trans and the child and OP are copping for it.

Some really thoughtful responses on this thread about how to support our children in navigating all this. There are massive problems for the individual children concerned and Transgender Trend has some very informed pieces from psychologists trying to support teenagers, like this one:

www.transgendertrend.com/teenager-says-theyre-transgender/

Genuinely (I know we disagree) an interesting read.

Staggeringly obvious you've never set foot in a classroom.

Wanda, this is truly offensive.