Help with talking to a 12 yr old about trans issues

[GoingOnce]

My son has a friend whose sister is apparently now his brother. I sense my son wants to talk to me about this and I want to have the right language to engage sensibly in a conversation. He has swallowed whole the ideology that people can change their gender as this has been “explained” to them at school. The child does not attend my son’s school but still attends a girls school - whilst going by a new name, wearing an adapted and having a special toilet assigned just for them.

The child in question (and the entire family) is struggling. There is self-harm and have been suicide attempts. I do not want to criticise them or their child. But I do want my child to realise that they are being presented with one narrative here. (I am quite certain the parents are simply going along with the whole thing because they are terrified of their child’s mental state and what they might do next. I feel very sorry for them).

Any advice for how I can discuss this sensibly? I can’t believe at age 12 we are already having to talk about all this.

Im going to hope I'm being oversensitive with your comparisons here, and not being half as utterly spiteful as I think

well if you crop random quotes from different points, you will be confused. Ironic that I mentioned faux confusion and it's here again.

My exact point was that posters suggesting what gender is in itself is a nuanced and complicated topic that really doesn't need to be gone into , and people like the OP who are faux confused about how to explain this to their small child when really it's none of their business dont need to go that in depth.

As I said, children understand far more than you give them credit for. X has changed his name to B and is identifying as a boy so we call them him and B is really quite enough.

Hope this helps, not that I believe you didn't understand in the first place.

Well done cluedo, I already said I'm not a parent of teens.

If you were really good as a detective, you'd be able to work out my age. And no, I'm not an NQT who thinks I'm forging new pupil centred practices. I'd be interested to know how you got to that conclusion given my repeated stance that I answer to further up the chain............

Anything to add to the OP, or are you just here to make things up?

As I said, children understand far more than you give them credit for. X has changed his name to B and is identifying as a boy so we call them him and B is really quite enough

You are asking kids to deny the reality of their own eyes and ears and collude in a lie to a vulnerable child and lie to their parents aswell. You owe them.more than " Cos I said so".

Do you think the message they take from this will stay In school and only apply to this child. Or do you think they will think that if X can be a boy then this 6 ft 5 beardy male in a dress that's followed me into the restraunt toilets can be a girl.

Or does that not matter cos it didn't happen In school so the consequences if this lie aren't your problem.

You are complicit in endangering these children and you don't even see them worthy of an explanation.

It also undermines the trust children have in their teachers/responsible adults.

Teachers are the first port of call.of something happens at school. If the first thing that happens is that adult gaslights the victim of bullying or worse then they could well.end up with no one they can talk to or trust. Leaving them vulnerable too. It goes to show how every child besides the teams child is just forgotten about and everyone is content with them being collateral damage all so.they don't male waves at work or can display a stonewall certificate.

If you cant see the far reaching consequences of being so blase about going along with it and relying on the get out clause of " well they didnt need to know" or " we didnt actually tell them they can change sex" then you have no.business dealing with children

They didn't seem to be random points, they all seemed to be connected to the discussion you were having with Whatwouldscullydo about what you believe transgenderism to be. You said first of all that children understood better than adults (presumably because in your experience if you say "X is not a boy any more, she's a girl", they will go along with it), then said that the discussion about what transgenderism is is too difficult for children to grasp.

The OP didn't seem 'faux confused' as you put it, she appeared to genuinely want advice about how to discuss this with her son, because her son's friend's sister has decided that she 'identifies as a boy'. Her son is no doubt confused about what is actually happening with his friend's sister, unless you think he is also 'faux confused' because children understand better than adults about transgender.

Why do you think it's enough to say that a girl is identifying as a boy? Don't you think children will have other questions about this, such as 'can people change sex?'

Yeah, and you are living in a fantasy world.

We are going round in circles, and as I know you're not interested in my thoughts but just want to continue to trip me up, I don't see the point in having the discussion.

The reason you don't think OP seems confused is because she is doing the same faux confusion technique as you.

Blimey the rudeness and ignorance is strong with this one. I can't believe everyone is dismissed out of hand without the slightest consideration that they might be talking about their own children or the children they teach.

stop you sound like a teenager and I don't believe you're a teacher. You couldn't possibly have gone through all the training a teacher is required to do showing such outright ignorance, arrogance and rudeness. You'll realise just how wrong you are when you grow up, but meanwhile there really is no need for such appalling behaviour here. Stop it. Or in other words, wind your neck in.

rogdmum I'm so pleased to see you on this thread. Anyone familiar with these boards and this topic will know your story and the awful impacts on your daughter of this ideology.

I haven't dismissed everyone. DId you skip the interaction between @rogdmum and I or did it just not suit your narrative?

I'm not ignorant, arrogant, or rude, and I haven't shown appalling behaviour. And I don't answer to you. And I'm very grown up. Your attempts to make out that I would post on MN pretending to do a job I don't is pathetic, and I really don't care what you think. And yes, the training is a lot, despite posters attempts to tell me I should just take their word as gospel and "challenge" my employers.

Your "telling off" is laughable. Absolutely laughable. Thanks for the laugh, I wonder if you know what a fool youve made of yourself.

How on earth can you keep telling people off for being rude, and in the next breath merrily fling insults and accusations around? Do you really not understand that you are being ostentatiously rude yourself, stop? Do you manage okay with interactions in day-to-day life?

I'm very grown up.

Oh, I see.

I did try in the first few pages, but since it's now fair game to just come on and completely attack me, I've realised I might as well just respond in the same manner. Yeah, I was rude there, but it was deserved.
Thanks for the third time you've popped up to moderate my behaviour though - an interesting move from someone who has had several deletions when I've had zero.

And no, I don't. I sit inside 24 hours a day hoping someone on MN will be along to tell me where I'm going wrong.

My exact point was that posters suggesting what gender is in itself is a nuanced and complicated topic that really doesn't need to be gone into , and people like the OP who are faux confused about how to explain this to their small child when really it's none of their business dont need to go that in depth.

None of their business???? Really? Children being told to lie and being indoctrinated is none of a parents business?

Calling out your appalling rude behaviour is not attacking you. It's calling out appalling rude behaviour.

I no longer believe a word you say. You do not persuade, you you harangue and twist words and seem unable to follow a reasonable comment without ad hominens

Your response was exactly the same to rogdmum until you chose to decide she was telling the truth, probably as a result of a virtual intake of breath that you were so rude to her, given her story, which you would know if you'd spent any time at all trying to understand the position on here.

We know your position. Many of us have been involved in the safeguarding of children against this damaging ideology for many years in all sorts of different ways. We have heard all your so-called arguments a thousand times, not that you 'argued' like a grown up. And still we know that you are wrong.

Now bore off and go and tidy your room.

And the reason you haven't had any deletions is that we don't report GFs on this board. We try and let everything stand in all its glory.

bewaldeth

im sure you know already that you haven’t made a fool of yourself in any way

rogdmum 💐 I don’t really have the words for your situation, I’ve obviously read your story before and i admire your strength and openness

Yes, you keep telling me you have been involved in safeguarding. I've heard it.

I never dismissed anyone's story in the first place. My conscience is clear about my interactions to all, including those who chose to attack me.

By the way, I didn't report anyone either, except the one post who told me to 'fuck off'. DZ has had numerous deletions so maybe there is another MN jury somewhere.

I'm not a GF though. Not in the slightest.

I don't need you, or any other poster, to comment on my interactions with other people. Once again, a forum has decided to sit in judgement of other people.

We are all grown up human beings (as much as you've all decided I'm some teenager troll who hasn't worked a day in my life, I wouldn't choose a thread which actually affects people day to day to pick on). The age old attack anyone who doesn't agree with you and then fall over in shock when people stand up for themselves has been strong for years. We've made progress though - a few years ago I would have woken up to a complete pile on, now it's only a couple of MN's jury.

Re: your point about not believing what I say, and I'm wrong, etc etc - I don't care. See, you're not my disappointed parent. You're not my boss. You're another anonymous poster on the internet, and ultimately it makes not one hoot to me what you think.

They aren't being indoctrinated.

It is none of OP's business what is happening with the other school child. None.

They aren't being indoctrinated

Ye they are, they are being told that child is now a boy when they are not, the school the OP's child attends has apparently 'explained' gender and her child has swallowed it so much that are fully on board with it.

It is none of OP's business what is happening with the other school child. None.

It is when her child is expected to be a party to the lie.

It is none of OP's business what is happening with the other school child. None

Then perhaps dont encourage or support something that is 100 percent reliant on the validation of unconsenting members of the public.

You make it everyone's business when u force their compliance

But what is the answer.

We change the whole school system to suit people like yourself who don't believe in transgender, when just as many people are supportive of it

You can talk about lies and indoctrination as much as you want. The reality is, the system the way it is will continue. You can choose to assess it sensibly and work out how best to explain it to your children, or you can hammer home to them that we are lying and gaslighting. Ultimately, the aim should be helping them.
It's all very well being "right", but we also have to live in a society.

I'm not forcing anyone's compliance.

But there are lots of people who do encourage and support it.

@stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou

We change the whole school system to suit people like yourself who don't believe in transgender, when just as many people are supportive of it

Do you really believe that if people could speak freely without fear of being 'cancelled' or labelled transphobic, 'just as many' people would say it's possible to change sex as those who say it's not possible?

That 'just as many' people would be comfortable with girls wearing binders as those who find it deeply concerning due to the damage it can cause physically?

You're contradicting yourself again.

First:
It is none of OP's business what is happening with the other school child. None.

Then:
You can choose to assess it sensibly and work out how best to explain it to your children

How to explain this to her child is exactly what the OP was asking for help with. But your response to that was it was none of her business.

So which is it? Do you think parents should try to explain what is going on with these children or do you think it's none of their business and they should refuse to answer if their own children have questions about it?