This (prison rape of female by transgender prisoner) never happens ...

[Mumsnut]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10755219/Transgender-Rikers-inmate-incarcerated-assault-housed-womens-wing-RAPES-female-inmate.html

Why are they seen as such a threat? Do the women who say they feel threatened by a trans woman using a toilet cubicle next to them never have workmen in their home, never go on blind dates with strangers or take a lift that has a man in it?
I understand that trans women have access to more intimate female only spaces than men do, but is the fear that people feel really, genuinely proportionate to the risk, or is it plain prejudice and scare mongering?

As transwomen are male, what evidence do you have that they should be less feared than other men in female only places? Unless such statistics exist, then the fear is plainly justified.

The lengths some people will go to justify providing rapists with female victims who can't escape. Ugh.

Someone else has noted on another thread how even patriarchally privileged men are becoming rather enlightened about the misogyny permeating society, as a result of this ideology.

When some male in born individuals liken their penis to miscarried foetuses and others go onto a feminist board in order to clamour to have rapists provided with incarcerated women, it's a little hard to miss.

This rapist was previously charged with an assault near a gay bar (not sure of the relevance in reporting ‘near a gay bar’ in the article so it may be relevant, or it may not) so they had a previous known history of violence.

So a violent male was placed in a female prison estate and the authorities thought this was ok?

Why are they seen as such a threat? Do the women who say they feel threatened by a trans woman using a toilet cubicle next to them never have workmen in their home, never go on blind dates with strangers or take a lift that has a man in it?

These are all scenarios that can be planned for, and appropriate precautions taken.

Well quite.

And I don't know about anyone else, but when I say I want an explicitly female only space and a man says he's going to ignore that and is coming in anyway, the threat level is deafening.

And don’t forget, we are supposed to be able to tell the good one from the bad ones!

Maybe they will wear a big sign for us with impaired vision. Because, at the moment I merely use my blurry vision to distinguish between male and female using the usual gait, body proportions etc, I generally cannot make out ‘presentation’ until they are close up. I am pretty accurate in sorting male and female actually, funny that.

The issue is that the Daily Mail etc love to stir up the whole trans topic and present trans women as some kind of threat to society.

No. The Daily Mail reports males as the kind of threat they present to society.

It seems that you must have some additional information that we are all missing. The facts and the studies that show transitioned males commit males that differ to typical males and with lower rates.

Please dare this information as I would like to read it. I am sure it will be well read if you post it here.

Otherwise, perhaps we will ignore your assertions as lacking any factual basis.

For the record, again I think trans women should be in a separate wing or ward from female inmates in womens prisons, the same with trans men, they need to be housed in a separate wing or ward from the male inmates. There was a shocking article of a trans man in a mens prison who was raped over 200 times. The sexes need to be kept apart.

But there does also need to be recognition and awareness of the epidemic of prison rape in womens prisons. It’s not recorded, reported or even considered rape because women don’t matter.

A lot of rape happens on men's wings, and trans women (SO or non SO) would be more vulnerable to that / perceived as an easy target if housed in men's wings.

Wasn’t there a new trans wing built in the UK recently, that was never used because the trans lobby groups insisted it was ‘othering’ and therefore cruel to put vulnerable males in that facility. Instead, they persisted with the ‘transitioned males need to be with the females’ agenda.

No, men do not need to be housed in any kind of wing in a woman's prison.

You say that women don't appear to matter, and yet simultaneously view them as some kind of male validation service.

My comment was to Discovereads

But there does also need to be recognition and awareness of the epidemic of prison rape in womens prisons. It’s not recorded, reported or even considered rape because women don’t matter.

I agree that if there is an epidemic of any rape or sexual assault in the female prison estates, this needs to be publicised and measures taken to fix it.

But where will the millions of pounds come from to build separate prisons for transgender people then? and studies have shown that the risk of prison rape is highest for transgender people if transgender people are put in with inmates of their birth sex. We have a duty of care to ALL prisoners. A separate wing or ward where they never mix is would have the exact same protection as a separate prison and can be implemented immediately and at zero cost.

I dont even understand where your accusation of “male validation service” can even come from.

kpssinfo.org/the-transgender-unit-e-wing/

Evidence comes down to women's safety being deemed less important than the validation of males. It also takes space away from the women's estate.

Male violence against other males should be dealt with by the male prison estate rather than women prisons being used as a useful dumping ground and women being used as collateral.

I'd like to know more about the epidemic, too. Data would be a good starting point.

Thanks wait.

I have also seen it mentioned elsewhere too. It was rather enlightening to understand that it was rejected. It certainly assured me that validation at all costs seems key.

Don't ask a regular on FWR for evidence. The only certainty is that you will get it. Sometimes you may even drown in it 😃

Male prisons already have facilities for vulnerable prisoners.

For elderly men, disabled men, effeminate men.

What is the purpose of funnelling some men into, or adjacent to, a female facility? Seriously, ask yourself that question and then answer it.

You appear to consider incarcerated women as an opportunity to validate male criminals, including rapists and murderers.

You are using these women. Their presence in a facility is crucial to your scenario.

And at the same time, you bemoan the fact that women don't matter. Well hello!

Meant to add - don't ask for evidence especially if you have been asked and have not provided evidence for your own statements.

Never goes down well here.🙃

But there does also need to be recognition and awareness of the epidemic of prison rape in womens prisons.

Discovereads, you posted information on this which showed that there is no longer an epidemic of female on female violence in British prisons. So why are you repeating something which you have already proved to be false?

Data would be a good starting point.

And actual data points - Ie. The raw data not a comparison about ‘proportions’ of reported assaults and rapes compared to on the male estate.

Oh you vipers. Fancy actually analysing data provided!

You'll be getting us all a bad name 😅

Seriously, your patience, as ever, with analysing mismatched data is much welcomed.

Hence why we continually ask for that evidence that transitioned males somehow have changed their offending patterns to be at female levels and it never is forth coming.

Yet… we are constantly told that transitioned males are no threat to females.

I say, back up your assertions with evidence!!! I am keen to read it and will post that evidence for posterity to the break it down for me thread!

Bring it on!!!

A U.K. government exploratory report from 2018 found that
”11% (n=202) of individuals involved (as both assailants and victims) were female, whereas women comprised an average 5% of the prison population between 2002 and 2014. Published statistics show that for much of the period between 2002 and 2014, a disproportionately high number of sexual assault incidents were reported in women’s establishments. For example, in 2002, 6% of the prison population was female, but 12% of reported sexual assaults occurred in female establishments.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/737991/sexual-assaults-reported-prisons-exploratory-findings.pdf

In the US the situation is similar. Here is a fact sheet from 2019.
wp.wwu.edu/prison/mistreatment/sexual-victimization/
e.g
”Women consist of 7% of the total prison population, 22% of all victims of inmate-on-inmate sexual victimization, and 33% of all victims of staff-on-inmate sexual victimization (Gilson, 2019).”

None of which backs up your epidemic of female on female sexual violence claim.

Partly because the sex of the offenders is not known. As has been admitted by the MoJ...