Apparently female rape survivors 'need' mixed sex groups

[IamSarah]

Honestly. This is what my local rape crisis centre wrote in a letter to the EHRC.

Apparently women who have been raped need to welcome trans women into the rape crisis groups as they provide amazing value and are 'needed'.

Of course they haven't actually asked female survivors. None of it is trauma informed. I've no idea what the motivation is but its dodgy as hell.

survivorsnetwork.org.uk/our-letter-to-the-equalities-and-human-rights-commission/

Can’t you sympathise with women traumatised by men. Would it kill then to out that theory to the test with women only sessions (or would they not want to test this for some reason?).

c** is a slur.

Just listened to that, thank you. I don't see how any sane empathetic person could disagree with what 'Sarah' said. Thank you to her for standing up for what is right and shame on Brighton Survivors Network for their mysoginistic policies.

THAT is not research!

43 members of staff, 23 clients were asked - 10 of whom were transwomen ffs!

THAT is propaganda written to support the shit Sarah is currently experiencing.

We asked all of our clients.

Women wanted female groups
Men wanted male groups
Both were open to the idea of mixed sex groups as a choice, an alternative usually later, as an additional therapy session.
Our trans clients got to the mixed sex sessions and/or 1-2-1 sessions. That is both transmen and transwomen

Even those who said, as you did @Discovereads "I wouldn’t care if a transwoman joined a women-only support group." stated unequivocally that their preference should not become policy if even one woman said no

Yes. I’m just challenging the narrative on here that the centre “never asked female survivors” when they did ask them and the narrative that all female survivors don’t want TW in women-only support groups I don’t care, and apparently I’m not the only one who doesn’t care, at least at the one centre the research was done the majority of female survivors did not care. So perhaps more research should be done? Instead of assuming all female survivors think alike?

Need?

Oh they can fuck right off. Right off.

I am a female survivor and I wouldn’t care if a transwoman joined a women-only support group.

I'm sorry you suffered this.

Do you think that women who do care should have their suffering added to because you don't care?

Do you think that women should feel unable to access the services they desperately need because you don't care?

Oh, and yes, I did miss a sentence... happened when I went back to make it bold. Apologies..

23 clients were asked, referred to as 'cis', 33 clients in all - 10 of whom were transwomen ffs!

@Justthisonceharold
I'm sorry you suffered this.. Thank you.

Do you think that women who do care should have their suffering added to because you don't care? No

Do you think that women should feel unable to access the services they desperately need because you don't care? No

Just challenging the narrative that all female survivors have the exact same opinion and needs.

So what’s a c** then? They don’t have a clue what they are blethering on about.

Just challenging the narrative that all female survivors have the exact same opinion and needs. You often go much further though. You often end up traducing much research, many opinions, facts, figures, because you wish to "challenge" something that women speak out about.

Surely by now you can see that your writing style sets up debate that is often reduced to rubble when you add your caveat of "I didn't mean that I just want to correct the narrative".

Far out! I have empathy for anyone who has been raped, but I can’t comprehend feeling comfortable discussing my own experiences with a male voice in the room without being triggered. An incel-type can simply identify as a woman to invade this space and and get his jollies and is then to remove his “woman costume” to share his experience mind-fucking the “naive/stupid” women… Trans people have access to their own counselors and group therapy, stating that they add value to the group dynamic is utterly invasive. Their desire to be included as yet another point of validation negates and undermines our right to safe spaces even further. Yes, they get raped and sexually assaulted, too - but statistically speaking the numbers are so much higher for those of us who were born female.

Just listened to your interview on Radio 4 (voiced by a producer). Your views came across as sane and intelligent and your arguments were compelling. It won't have done any good at all to the Brighton organisation. Excellent! I imagine an army of Radio 4 listeners spluttering with rage into their cornflakes! Well done!

Men have always held the opinion that they add value to everything. Mansplaining wouldn't exist if they didn't. A transwoman is just a man in a costume. The penis and the brain remain entirely male so the entitlement remains unchanged.

Sorry you must have me confused with another poster. This is the first time I’ve used the words “challenge the narrative” on MN.

We really don’t!

I have no issues with transpeople but woman are entitled to have female only spaces, services like this should just offer 3 different groups (Male/Female/Mixed) so their clients can all feel safe and respected and they all have the choice of which group they would personally like to choose and feel more supported/comforted in.

Just challenging the narrative that all female survivors have the exact same opinion and needs.

All survivors have different needs.

Some trans survivors need trans inclusive or even trans specific groups. They have these.

Some male survivors need male only groups. They have these.

Female survivors who need female only groups are the only survivors whose needs are not catered for.

It is not OK to sacrifice women's safety and dignity on the altar of gender ideology.

Yes this bothered me too - it wasn't at all clear in the BBC article, and I read somewhere else online that someone thought it was a bit unfair because 'trans people need somewhere to go as they can be raped too'. The article says that men are referred elsewhere. So the way it is currently written, it does give some reason why a trans person would have been in the group. I wish it was much clearer that there were also men's groups, and trans groups (and maybe also explicitly mixed groups?). Then the fact she was seeking just one women's only group but couldn't have it would have seemed even more shocking. As it is, I think people will read it and come away thinking "shame, but you have to have somewhere for trans women who have been raped to go" (especially as they are so conditioned to think of trans women as being very vulnerable and victimised).

I hope this might get corrected in later versions of the article, but I'm not sure how that could be done.

Female survivors who need female only groups are the only survivors whose needs are not catered for.

This is the problem, sex discrimination, everything else is distraction. Choice for everyone but women is unjust misogynistic and discriminatory, shame on this organisation.

Female survivors who need female only groups are the only survivors whose needs are not catered for.

This is the real point and you’re absolutely right. It’s just makes no sense to argue that all groups for female survivors must be trans women exclusionary. Say you have 4 womens group, survey the patients as they come in and based on individual needs divide up the 4 groups into however many need to be trans exclusionary and how ever many can be trans inclusive. So if half the female survivors don’t care if TW are in the group, then 2 womens groups can be trans inclusionary and 2 exclusionary. It should all be centred around the survivors needs and be fluid and adjustable.

This is disgusting.

They don't see any irony in providing a group solely for trans clients, but insisting that a single sex group for women should be open to trans women

And the irony that all the research they quote suggests women are happy with this, when Survivor's Network are about to be taken to court by a woman who is saying the opposite.

Survivor's Network is quite clearly not fit for purpose unless they change their remit to being a trans and/or men's service provider only as it stands.

Go Sarah, you have so many of us behind you, wishing you well and thanking you for standing up. Keep an eye on your blood pressure though, I'm sure mine has shot up!

I can't find a feedback page anywhere where you can report possible misleading information about articles - you can send a complaint email, but that's not what I'm after. I'd just like them to make the point about how many other groups there are suitable for trans people, as it feels like they've been (deliberately?) misleading the way the article is now. Does anyone know if there is just an anonymous feedback page somewhere that you can report errors etc?

@BotCrossHuns
Then the fact she was seeking just one women's only group but couldn't have it would have seemed even more shocking. As it is, I think people will read it and come away thinking "shame, but you have to have somewhere for trans women who have been raped to go"

I agree there should be as many womens groups needed to help all women who cannot be around TW. And then the TW can come to womens groups with women like me who don’t care (happy to take one for the team). It’s not like there are that many TW! They’ll simply have to accept they cannot access all womens groups. Women like me who don’t care do exist and so there will always be a place for TW to go that is a womens group- so what would TW have to complain about?

It doesn’t have to be all or nothing. A win win compromise can be negotiated.
Im not triggered by men…as I have had too many years of telling and retelling my attacks to male police, detectives, psychiatrists, psychologists, etc for it to affect me. But I recognise it can be a trigger for other women and respect it absolutely.

If I recall that's all Sarah was asking for....

Actually I'm quite uncomfortable that you'd 'take one for the team' @Discovereads

As a victim of abuse, therapy is absolutely one place where you should not be taking one for the team. Your should be centering your own needs. I'm quite sad to hear you'd centre someone else's.

yes exactly, she was just asking for one all-women's group; not that others couldn't have transwomen in, or that there shouldn't be any trans-only groups, or that men shouldn't have services too, etc. etc. All of those things existed already, apparently!

This is why I think the article should be a lot clearer!