Jess Phillips says a woman can't have a penis and that sex and gender are two different things

[bellinisurge]

Here twitter.com/talktv/status/1514542152885452804?s=21&t=g7M6M2EAFww7ZBC6MK5mFQ

Will she get a back lash for this, I wonder?

I don't need to police the threads as unless I'm mistaken, swearing is against mumsnets rules ?

Wronger than a wrong thing in wrongville

If we stop using the word woman/women as the way to describe sport/single sex spaces prisons etc and use the word female, it’s a much clearer point to make.

Which words are we going to use when they change the meaning of female? Are we going to say cis women, cis female, cis girls? Although I do like saying "women - the cunty kind' when speaking to tra.

@RufustheFloralmissingreindeer

I don't need to police the threads as unless I'm mistaken, swearing is against mumsnets rules ?

Wronger than a wrong thing in wrongville

It's OK Rufus, I think we've got that sorted now

It's OK Rufus, I think we've got that sorted now

Humph

I may not have pressed refresh before i posted…

Maybe

This may or not be me

unless I'm mistaken, swearing is against mumsnets rules?

😂😂😂😂

Which words are we going to use when they change the meaning of female? Are we going to say cis women, cis female, cis girls?

Well that will cover the female humans who choose that label for themselves, but it won't cover the very large percentage who don't.

And of course we don't coercively assign labels, or assume someone's identity or go against their deeply held inner beliefs, do we? And of course we apply the same standards to all humans, even the female ones.

Sorry, I'll be polite about women but female is a statement of fact, not identity. At that point, I'm pushed to the discourtesy of being probably clearer than the speaker would like me to be. But they will have left me no choice.

@RufustheFloralmissingreindeer

This may or not be me

You’ve lost your antlers!

Rufus you are especially cute in a huff.

I am to be fair

[tickles Rufus behind the ears]

If we stop using the word woman/women as the way to describe sport/single sex spaces prisons etc and use the word female, it’s a much clearer point to make.

I don't understand. Taking changing rooms as an example "women's changing room" is obviously only for women (and probably girls if applicable). "Female changing room" is for women and girls. Women are female, the words are pretty much interchangeable (noun and adjective).

Woman is a gender word, males can decided to identify as a woman but female is irrefutable.

We can’t change biological sex

To be clear, nobody can change who is or is not female

If we stop the woman/women as a description we can’t be relegated to (fucking) cis

We are female. Nobody can take that from us.

Although women, the cunty kind has a superb ring to it” @ZuttZeVootEeeVo*

Pardon the pun

what is the correct terminology to use to describe the biological differences vs, what humans want to identify as ?

As from my science lessons, if a person has certain parts of an anatomy then they are either x or y, but with the new interpretations, I'm not sure what is what.

Woman is a gender word, males can decided to identify as a woman but female is irrefutable.

They're already trying to fute it. The bid for 'female' is well underway, and that has changed since I first started reading up on all this 4-5 years ago. It used to be 'nobody is claiming TW are female'. Now it is more 'transitioning to female', and 'how dare you say TW are male'. Still often both at once.

The result of surrendering 'women' is just that we have to re-fight every fight we ever had for women's rights in the name of 'female' rights. And by the time we get there they'll have completed their bid for female too.

Thing is it's not about the words really. It's about not allowing women (females) any man (male)-free spaces.

@MzHz

Woman is a gender word, males can decided to identify as a woman but female is irrefutable.

We can’t change biological sex

Woman is not a gender word anymore than mare or ewe is. It sexes the species to which it applies. A woman is an adult (mature) female of the human variety.

Your socio/psycho 'ologies' stole from science adopted the 'Trans' and 'Cis' descriptors and applied them to men and women as labels for their (the socio/psycho 'ologists') gender theories/beliefs.

I happen to think their theories/beliefs are pure and unadulterated bullology. Once, people may have thought phrenology was as dodgy a modern pseudoscience as you could get. 'Hold my beer' said the C21st!

Woman is a gender word

No it isn't. It's sex based. It's the word for adult human females not people who perform femininity.

If you think it's a 'gender word' then you have altered it's meaning so that 'woman' becomes a set of stereotypes and mannerisms or special internal feelings, and makes us a subset of our own sex class so a group of men can pretend they belong in it.

Man is the word for adult human males.

Why the fuck should we pretend that the word that describes 50% of the population now means something else because a few men decided they wanted to have it for themselves? NO.

The more that is conceded the more they will demand. They've already started using female.

@thirdfiddle

Woman is a gender word, males can decided to identify as a woman but female is irrefutable.

They're already trying to fute it. The bid for 'female' is well underway, and that has changed since I first started reading up on all this 4-5 years ago. It used to be 'nobody is claiming TW are female'. Now it is more 'transitioning to female', and 'how dare you say TW are male'. Still often both at once.

The result of surrendering 'women' is just that we have to re-fight every fight we ever had for women's rights in the name of 'female' rights. And by the time we get there they'll have completed their bid for female too.

Thing is it's not about the words really. It's about not allowing women (females) any man (male)-free spaces.

yep, it's absolutely not about the words, because, as you say, the trans lobby will always be more than happy to move the semantic goalposts. it's perfectly within the realms of possibility for even a seemingly settled term like 'trans woman' to in the future be cast aside (e.g. 'i didn't transition to being female in any meaningful sense, I've always been female, only not initially recognised as such').

the substantive debate needs to take place issue by issue (sports, changing rooms, prisons, etc) without ever being distracted by terminology.

If you want a word to describe performing gender stereotypes, consider masculine and feminine. We have used those words for centuries.

They may not be perfect but they can also get the point across.

@Whatsnewpussyhat

Woman is a gender word

No it isn't. It's sex based. It's the word for adult human females not people who perform femininity.

If you think it's a 'gender word' then you have altered it's meaning so that 'woman' becomes a set of stereotypes and mannerisms or special internal feelings, and makes us a subset of our own sex class so a group of men can pretend they belong in it.

Man is the word for adult human males.

Why the fuck should we pretend that the word that describes 50% of the population now means something else because a few men decided they wanted to have it for themselves? NO.

The more that is conceded the more they will demand. They've already started using female.

Understood, but people ARE choosing gender and woman is now being used as a description of the gender some men identify with. It’s been eroded. I admit.

I don’t have a problem with a man wanting to live as a woman, but this choice doesn’t make them female, and it doesn’t/shouldn’t mean they have 100% parity with me, in my sport, with regards to safety or privacy.

If we can’t change biological sex, then surely using that as the way we demarcate sports and spaces, this is a way to protect them?

Have I got the wrong end of the stick here?

@DifficultBloodyWoman

If you want a word to describe performing gender stereotypes, consider masculine and feminine. We have used those words for centuries.

They may not be perfect but they can also get the point across.

That’s a good point.

But it doesn’t protect our spaces.