Jess Phillips says a woman can't have a penis and that sex and gender are two different things

[bellinisurge]

Here twitter.com/talktv/status/1514542152885452804?s=21&t=g7M6M2EAFww7ZBC6MK5mFQ

Will she get a back lash for this, I wonder?

I don’t write off the good JP does. I profoundly disagree with the position that self-ID is harmless to women. I support trans people’s rights to change their legal sex with a medical diagnosis of lasting dysphoria. But I disagree with her that the advancement of trans rights is progressive.

@DomesticatedZombie

To have the names in Hansard it has to be read by an MP.

I see, I didn't realise that. I am glad the names are read out.

Yes me too. I find the statistics dehumanising, and to hear the names very moving.

Not writing off the good but she ain't no Barbara Castle. You'd so want her to be a strong figure. And she's not. She's mediocre. I so hoped she wouldn't be. Her performance on here at the last election was that of a flaky teenager

@carefullycourageous

I can disagree with her on this issue (and others) and still respect and feel grateful for her work on men’s violence against women. This from Karen Ingala Smith is an example of a comment expressing disagreement that is not alienating.

It is the way people will write off everything someone does that is good/helpful, because they are not in agreement about this issue. I find it alienating and my view is it is self-defeating.

Fair enough.

Anyway, she’s one person. To vote Labour, I’d have to want to elect Thornberry, Lammy, Creasy, Miliband, Nandy, Dodds and all the rest of them. People who think I’m a dangerous fascist because I happen not to believe there’s an objective and inherent thing called ‘gender’, and that it’s more important than sex differences.

Nope. Sorry Jess but far too little, far too late for me. She can pretend she hasn't repeatedly sold women down the river all she likes, we remember.

Absolutely the only good thing that came out of this is that she admitted that TW “may” have a penis. So many people still believe that most TW have had surgery and can’t understand what all the fuss is about.

The more that Labour fesses up to the existence of the 80-90% who haven’t, the better. Once people know this they very quickly appreciate the problems about single sex spaces etc.

she's mediocre

I don't even especially care about JP, but I am tired of this approach. Stick to critiquing her position. Is she really mediocre, given she has come from a non-privileged background to get to where she is? Is Johnson, the new saviour of women, not also pretty mediocre?

The "may " is actually "probably does". This is what changed my view. Something like 80% of those transwomen who have a GRC are still fully intact. And that's WITH a GRC. I'd kind of assumed it was a tiny bunch of men so emotionally tortured that they had their dicks cut off. So I was prepared to Be Kind. It isn't and I'm not.

I actually think saying someone is mediocre is completely legitimate. JP doesn’t exactly mince her words. Why should voters not say what they think of her performance?

Personally I don’t think she is mediocre. She seems to be a decent enough MP. But I don’t want her in government.

@carefullycourageous of course Johnson is mediocre. Actually, I think he's criminally incompetent.
But I go back to her performance on here. When faced with the people you would think would be her natural allies, namely strong minded and fully engaged women, she almost literally crumpled. Not good enough.

@carefullycourageous

I can disagree with her on this issue (and others) and still respect and feel grateful for her work on men’s violence against women. This from Karen Ingala Smith is an example of a comment expressing disagreement that is not alienating.

It is the way people will write off everything someone does that is good/helpful, because they are not in agreement about this issue. I find it alienating and my view is it is self-defeating.

Problem is when someone has been saying one thing for so long, it's hardly surprising that people are cynical when they suddenly appear to change their mind out of the blue with no explanation. And Jess is no fool, she knows what she's saying and exactly how to phrase it in a way that's suitably ambiguous. And we're also not foolish enough to fall for it.

She's "quirky backbencher " material. She's not Cabinet material. So I stand by "mediocre "

I love that JP is both no fool, she knows what she's saying and exactly how to phrase it in a way that's suitably ambiguous and mediocre.

As I say, I am not trying to be a specific person's defender, I am not in the fan club.

Yes, I know. That’s why I put “may” in inverted commas, to signal she was being distinctly economical with the truth. She is still far from telling the truth but the closer she or anyone gets to it the better.

I read somewhere that the number of MTF surgeries in the UK is 140 a year and that number has stayed pretty consistent. It was used to justify the GRA on the basis it was such a tiny number of people.

I think Starmer wouldn’t say “yes some women have a penis [ie TW with a penis who have a GRC and are treated for some purposes as legally female]” precisely because he was very unwilling to publicise how few have surgery. That and because the follow up would be “and Labour’s policy on self ID would result in loads more”

I didn't call her mediocre.
But you don't have to be a fool to be mediocre.

@carefullycourageous

she's mediocre

I don't even especially care about JP, but I am tired of this approach. Stick to critiquing her position. Is she really mediocre, given she has come from a non-privileged background to get to where she is? Is Johnson, the new saviour of women, not also pretty mediocre?

One assesses politicians on a variety of issues/positions, and to decide someone is 'mediocre' or 'insincere' or 'untrustworthy' overall is a perfectly reasonable stance.

It sounds to me as if the Labour leadership are panicking and have finally come up with an agreed line, which is essentially "Biology is important! Of course it is! Ha ha ha ha" combined with "but trans women are important too! And they have very sad lives! So we need to be kind to everyone!" And then they hope that no one drills down into the detail.

Spot on @RoyalCorgi

As if no one would notice the sudden panicked about turn.

@DomesticatedZombie My suspicion is if JP, along with all policticans, was saying what the listener wanted her to say, she would suddenly be deemed a lot less 'mediocre' and a lot more 'brave and impressive'.

[quote carefullycourageous]@DomesticatedZombie My suspicion is if JP, along with all policticans, was saying what the listener wanted her to say, she would suddenly be deemed a lot less 'mediocre' and a lot more 'brave and impressive'.[/quote]
Nah I don’t reckon

Johnson has arguably said what people on here want him to say…and on just about every post about his comments the relevant poster has a litany of slurs about him before saying ‘…but he is right on this’

@carefullycourageous , I can appreciate a clearly made point that doesn't accord with mine. Look up her Q&A on here. It was dreadful. Rosie Duffield is often too polite and mild but she, at least, makes her points clearly and well. And she still gets the abuse she gets.

There is literally no one in thrall to the TRA cult that makes any decent point. If there was, I would acknowledge it.

What, I'd be impressed if Jess Philips was honest and said what she thought? That's true.

This seems to be the same argument as 'he's just saying that so you vote for him, you fools'.

Which is sort of the point of democratic politics, I had thought.

For a long time JP's pinned tweet has been an article complaining about lack of refuge spaces for victims of domestic violence, she thinks they deserved so much better. Her idea of better appears to be allowing men into those refuges. Giving with one hand whilst taking with the other, it's hard to calculate if there is a "net" good for women there.

@DomesticatedZombie

What, I'd be impressed if Jess Philips was honest and said what she thought? That's true.

This seems to be the same argument as 'he's just saying that so you vote for him, you fools'.

Which is sort of the point of democratic politics, I had thought.

It is OK for politicians to say they will do it and carry through, it is when they say it just to get votes but have no intention of carrying through.

My concern about Johnson is he is saying what he thinks will help him electorally now, but he will happily sell women down the river when he wants to.

Well, I'm afraid I'm maybe more cynical in that I think that goes for just about all of the political parties.