Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing

[ickky]

The Tribunal will start on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

I have sent a request but haven't had anything back yet. Hopefully nearer the time.

This person is suggesting sending Allison, who is known to be a survivor of child sex abuse, a 'Wispa', presumably in reference to the incident in the US where a male with a history of convictions for voyeurism and sexual offences exposed himself to a child?

Stay classy.

Is this to do with this article in the daily mail

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10767877/Lesbian-barrister-free-speech-battle-Stonewall-resumes-fell-ill.html

Which female people don't. Yep.

Who's running FPFW again?
FWS?
KPSS?
The Respect my Sex campaign?

I was talking with someone yesterday about one of the many many facets of all this, who came out with the line about 'it's just a bunch of Christian extremists'.

Yeah, no love. There aren't any in the UK, that's a US imported idea and it doesn't work here. This is about really pissed off females. Mums. Ordinary women.

I wonder why people are afraid to face up to that? And would much rather find a way to blame a bunch of men?

Possibly because then it's easier to go on denying that this is impacting those women and they do want their bloody rights back.

don't think that's strictly true, many men are brought into the GC movement from the manosphere by people such as Joe Rogan, Sargon Of Akkad, Matt Walsh, Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson etc - they have an incredible reach and influence.

They're not feminists, they are anti woke conservatives. Not to say they don't occasionally do good things relating to this topic, but they're not focussed on women's rights like MN is and most MNers would clash with conservative men on other issues.

Mumsnet, I'd say, is the biggest "radicalisation portal" in terms of women's sex based rights and child safeguarding, unsurprisingly.

And in a widely mixed age range of women teaching other women how to have healthy boundaries, to escape, to say no, to believe that they have a right to be happy and safe regardless of what a partner might tell them, to be stronger and more self reliant.

I often read the threads on AIBU and while it's a bloodbath you see there - and all over the board - what women expect of each other, and the standards are high . We expect to be much more pandery and indulgent to children and male people, but woman to woman? There's a back handed compliment there of just how strong and tough women are and teach other women to be.

Anyone who's been on MN long enough will have seen the raging exes on the relationships board who absolutely hate that their partner has been empowered and given other views but the one the ex wanted them to have, and so has made inconvenient choices that meet the woman's need and not the ex's. Some of those women have made those desperate posts in the middle of the night that go 'he just tried to choke me and threw me down the stairs, I'm locked in the bathroom with the kids', and other women posters will help and support, often through knowledge gained via their own bitter experience.

If that's 'radicalisation' then thank God for it. It's a wonderful thing. But I get that there are male people who would much prefer those women to just stay in their box.

If that's 'radicalisation' then thank God for it. It's a wonderful thing. But I get that there are male people who would much prefer those women to just stay in their box.

YY, exactly.

Exactly.

Watching TRAs trying to push the idea that there are all these male gender critical individuals, just exposes that they can't see the difference between anti-woke conservatives, and feminists who criticise gender stereotyping.

It's always rather sobering to realise that men, almost all of them, have absolutely zero idea about how the other sex live.

But you'd think, given the amount of bloody time that transactivists spend addressing gender critical feminists, that they would have at least a vague idea of what it's all about.

I hesitate to say this, but I'm fast concluding that women, in general, are just brighter than men.

Something to do with all the blood in their brains being diverted elsewhere, I guess.

And yes, a quick ask of Justine about how many women there are on this highly specific, ring fenced, total exclusive to one subject, board, would shut that nonsense down immediately.

I assume Allison's argument is that ppl who share and express the same beliefs are much more likely to be female than male, therefore to discriminate against the belief is to indirectly discriminate against women. It's obviously true but tricky to prove with data. The blokes who start speaking about tw in women's sport because they watched jo rogan or whatever don't generally share those protected beliefs.

Watching TRAs trying to push the idea that there are all these male gender critical individuals, just exposes that they can't see the difference between anti-woke conservatives, and feminists who criticise gender stereotyping.

It always reminds me of the extreme end misogyny women are so familiar with in so many contexts across their lives. (Another boring bit of biologically related womanhood that no one seems to want to appropriate.)

That one of:

women aren't thinking, rational beings and they don't have inner lives of their own
So everything women think, say or do is obviously always all about male people
ergo women saying they don't want to lose rights is just women being difficult for the sake of annoying male people
Because what else could possibly occupy their little minds?
Obviously therefore anything significant to do with women must have been organised by men.

It's also toddler thinking. Mummy exists solely to revolve around me, all the time, and everything Mummy thinks, says and does is always directly about me, for me, because of me.

It doesn't matter how many times women try to explain their problems and issues with this ideology trampling them, all we get is baffled responses of 'does not compute'. Alternated with 'don't be silly'.

I think a key part of the argument (for me) is that the suppression of expression of GC beliefs disproportionately affects women more than men, in terms of chilling effect.

So not just affects more women. But also affects women more.

As an argument, it's clearly nonsense. It is obviously women who are most affected by it, so shouldn't that be discrimination by itself, quite apart from who actually talks about it?

I know laws don't really work that way, but surely any fool would be able to appreciate that since it's primarily affecting women, it's going to be primarily women talking about it!

TRAs rarely gave internal logic to their BBC arguments as it's just about proving whoever they're arguing with wrong then saying the opposite if needs be in the next argument.

It would be hard to say that they discriminated just because Allison is female. But if they discriminated against her because of her legitimate beliefs and those beliefs are predominantly held by women then they would have indirectly discriminated against her on the basis of sex. Which carries a higher penalty I think in terms of compensation.

Random BBC crept in there.

Regarding the Wispa login, just saw this - mobile.twitter.com/JammersMinde/status/1520417171213623304

It is obviously women who are most affected by it, so shouldn't that be discrimination by itself, quite apart from who actually talks about it?

I’ve always thought that, Datun, but I think there might be too much plain common sense in your argument. The legal system doesn’t really seem to function on that principle.

Yes indeed.

Yes. Also, at least online the suppression is disproportionately applied to women who state their opinions. GC men don't get the same kinds of threads and even get questions answered. GC women get death threats and demands for silence.

😄😄😄

IKR? God, women should sooo rule the world.

Allison has tweeted:

”Thank you for your messages of love & support. I've recovered & am home.

A special thank you to everyone within the NHS for taking such good care of me, from the ambulance crew that got me to hospital quickly, to the nurses, doctors, care staff & cleaners. You guys are amazing.”

IKR? God, women should sooo rule the world.

Had this conversation yesterday when wishing for the bladder of my 21 yr old son (long journey). He laughed about men just being superior. I laughed and pointed out that actually the world was designed around men's strengths so they look superior. In a female dominated world, we'd have been working from home long ago and many of these toilet issues wouldn't even arise as provision would be adequate!

TRAs on twitter are saying that Allison made up the story about the neighbour's children apologising after everone started encouraging her to go to the police 😟

I laughed and pointed out that actually the world was designed around men's strengths so they look superior.

Yes, that's an eye opener isn't it?

All I’m saying is, if I had a pound for every time a kid accidentally threw a wrapped chocolate bar into my garden, I’d still have zero pounds.