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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Starmer says biology matters for 99.9% of women

95 replies

ResisterRex · 12/04/2022 20:11

In the Scotland section. It looks like the Respect My X campaign is having an impact.

Biology as basis for sex is common sense, says Starmer

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/01012bc6-ba77-11ec-94e5-2197dead5942?shareToken=20e63c70e9e3f8c424182815f247e84e

"During a visit to Glasgow this morning, Starmer was asked if he agrees with Duffield’s view that “of course a woman cannot have a penis”.
He replied: “I think for 99.9 per cent of women biology matters and of course that it what defines them.
“Nobody is quarrelling with any of that and I think Rosie and I would say exactly the same thing on this. There is a small minority of people who were born with a gender that they struggle with and don’t identify with.
“They often go through quite a traumatic time. I think we should respect and support them in that.
“That isn’t to suggest that for 99.9 per cent of women biology isn’t the determining factor, of course it is, it is plain common sense and I don’t quarrel with that, but I don’t want to leave out of account the smaller group of people who really do struggle with their gender identity.”"

OP posts:
Ohnohedident · 12/04/2022 23:16

Labour need to be hurt, really hurt, before they can even begin to come crawling back.

SpinningMeSoftly · 12/04/2022 23:37

Keir Starmer as far as I am aware has never contradicted his Shadow Cabinet colleague Lisa Nandy for saying that male offenders should be able to choose to go to women's prisons if they say the special words and choose to do so.

DomesticatedZombie · 12/04/2022 23:43

I don’t want to leave out of account the smaller group of people who really do struggle with their gender identity.

By 'leave out of account' he means 'allow to identify as women'.

Fuck off, Keir.

WalrusSubmarine · 12/04/2022 23:43

It’s a bit “of course we still have single sex exemptions and we absolutely need to make provision for females away from males and we also need to allow some males access to those spaces so that they have some provision away from other males and it’s only a small number so it doesn’t sound threatening and we don’t need to worry about it at all as long as everyone is really kind”. Say it calmly and confidently and hope no one notices it doesn’t work until you’ve skipped town, changed your name and are counting the money.

SpinningMeSoftly · 12/04/2022 23:51

Make men face up to their own problems of their own making, Keir.

zanahoria · 12/04/2022 23:55

Starmer must know that does not make sense

He is just hoping that he gets away with it

nepeta · 13/04/2022 01:20

Most men define themselves as men because their bodies are male and most women define themselves as women because their bodies are female. The words 'women' and 'men' may also have social role connotations and become embodied over time, but they are clearly firmly anchored in biological sex for the majority.

Transgender individuals, however, define their gender identities in opposition to the sex of their bodies. And that is fine and something which deserves accommodation in all those social contexts where biological sex doesn't matter.

But the gender theorists are not content with that. Rather, they simply rule that no person bases their gender on their biological sex.

It is then quite acceptable to be 'inclusive' to trans men and enbies with female bodies by writing about not 'women and girls' but about 'menstruators' or 'vulva-owners' or 'pregnant people'.

That is what 'cis' means: the erasure of the sexed body in those definitions, and that is why I absolutely refuse to be assigned that label.

This also means that the new 'inclusiveness' erases almost everyone's definition of their own gender because it is biology-based. Yet if we protest this erasure of our own 'identities', we are called transphobes.

So Starmer is moving in the right direction but doesn't yet have the clarity that is needed. Few people do, to be honest.

Thelnebriati · 13/04/2022 01:31

I want to hear a human rights lawyer justify putting convicted male sex offenders in a womens prison.

Giggorata · 13/04/2022 01:39

Not nearly good enough, Keir.

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 13/04/2022 07:41

He can try and dress it up any way he wants but people see that he was a misogynist to Rosie Duffield, thinks men can access women's spaces if they want and is just trying to hide his blatant disregard for women under nonsense words.

He's shown us that the only human rights he's interested in are men's rights and he's continuing to say that the category of 'woman' is whatever you want it to be thereby evidencing a disregard for the multitudes of evidence which evidence inequalities. That man is not fit for office.

The only thing he can do to try and redeem himself is to admit that he was absolutely wrong, to agree that woman is an entirely biological category and do some proper (not stonewalled) equalities training. Other than that - people see through his shit.

tabbycatstripy · 13/04/2022 07:49

The aim of this isn’t to placate any GC women. He knows we know that ‘the vast majority of women are defined gay biology’ means exactly the same thing as TWAW.

He’s just hoping this quietens down the journalists.

Floisme · 13/04/2022 07:50

He replied: “I think for 99.9 per cent of women biology matters and of course that it what defines them.
No Keir, biology does not define me or my personality, what it defines is my sex.

tabbycatstripy · 13/04/2022 08:03

I don’t know why my phone wrote “gay biology”.

Defined by biology.

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 13/04/2022 08:04

That fence post up his arse has got to be getting quite painful now.

KittenKong · 13/04/2022 08:11

Skelfs. Painful.

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 13/04/2022 08:45

@tabbycatstripy

The aim of this isn’t to placate any GC women. He knows we know that ‘the vast majority of women are defined gay biology’ means exactly the same thing as TWAW.

He’s just hoping this quietens down the journalists.

That is a really good point and explains why this feels like obfuscation rather than communication.
Datun · 13/04/2022 08:56

He doesn't have a coherent position. To accommodate the 0.1%, he still has to explain who they are and where he thinks they can go.

The principle is identical, he's just messing about with numbers. Which are, as he well knows, entirely irrelevant anyway if any man, anywhere, any time, can identify into them.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 13/04/2022 08:59

@SirSamVimesCityWatch

That fence post up his arse has got to be getting quite painful now.
Good
LittleWhingingWoman · 13/04/2022 09:09

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee

He can try and dress it up any way he wants but people see that he was a misogynist to Rosie Duffield, thinks men can access women's spaces if they want and is just trying to hide his blatant disregard for women under nonsense words.

He's shown us that the only human rights he's interested in are men's rights and he's continuing to say that the category of 'woman' is whatever you want it to be thereby evidencing a disregard for the multitudes of evidence which evidence inequalities. That man is not fit for office.

The only thing he can do to try and redeem himself is to admit that he was absolutely wrong, to agree that woman is an entirely biological category and do some proper (not stonewalled) equalities training. Other than that - people see through his shit.

This.
doublemonkey · 13/04/2022 09:38

@MrsDanversBroom

So weaselly, still not getting my vote.
This.

I won't be forgetting this in a hurry.

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