Monsoon

[Awkwardy]

Oh, I'm so bored.

Here they go... twitter.com/MonsoonUK/status/1513811068686155778?s=20&t=zQnlx9T5PprC0S2v-ECHxQ

Another one off the list. Who do they think spends lots of money with them?

@MummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking

Right. If you're told to wait, that's a clear example of upholding the recent EHRC guidelines. Respecting the women and girls changing in the space, and then providing the same changing room to the non binary person.

Each person gets to use the changing room, so each person gets the same, equal provision.

But oh noes! Equal provision is all well and good, but with no women or girls in the space there's no....validation!! 😫

No one to check out the stunning bravery! No one to look at and dare to challenge, or no women to ask their opinions, therefore no chance of being complimented! No attention! Girlie shopping trip vibe ruined

Luckily Twitter is there for all the attention seeking needs 🙄

^This!

@girasol

Gosh, a reply already from Monsoon’s CEO to my email!! D’ya think he’s having to spend all afternoon copying and pasting?!

Slightly different slant on the story there, not refused entry, just asked to wait because changing rooms all in use.

@Pawtriarchal

Another clear sign of male privilege: not used to waiting their turn.

A few hard years of desperate crosslegged queuing up in womens toilets will sort that out! They will be begging to go back to using urinals!

@IvyTwines

According to Charlie's twitter bio, Charlie is the 'chair and trans rep' of Young Liberals. Someone on the Twitter thread is saying Charlie is 21, which if true is a bit old for a prom dress.

Don't believe everything you read on twitter. 18 according to the newspaper so getting some prom clothes are perfectly normal.

Don't believe everything you read on twitter. 18 according to the newspaper so getting some prom clothes are perfectly normal.

And don't believe everything you read on MSM. I'm going to check this out (digs out NUJ Card)

So Charlie was asked to wait for their turn. I have often been asked to wait for a cubicle in dressing rooms during busy times. But then my sex is brought up to wait more patiently.

The tweets are overwhelmingly on the side of wanting single-sex dressing-rooms or if they are mixed-sex, then they should be clearly marked as such and the cubicles shouldn't have those flimsy curtains which never properly close.

@GoodJanetBadJanet

On the other hand I tend to find that short large Afro-Caribbean women, from my experience , rarely pander to penis, especially if they are of a certain age. Wow. Where do you even start with that?! Assumptions on age, race AND towards trans people, that takes some epic doing!

Any comment on Charlie's remarks on her eyebrows?

Or are you just going to have a go at the MNer who only has positive things to say about her experiences of older afro-Caribbean women?

Seriously, why did you skip Charlie's comment? That's seriously selective reading, to only have a go at the woman responding to a comment but not the original.

Let's quote it again. Charlie was asked to describe the member of staff who asked Charlie to wait. This is what Charlie said: "visual description is short large Afro-Caribbean lady with poorly drawn on eyebrows".

Where do you start with that?
Do you think it's okay to be derogatory about black women's make-up if you identify as trans or identify as a trans rights activist? Is that what it is?

Seriously, the optics on this are very, very poor.

Charlie appears to be a white male teenager. Charlie has gone shopping for a prom dress at Monsoon, which is a high street retailer, but priced towards the high end of high street. I doubt that is reflected in staff wages though, so I think it won't be much about minimum wage.

Charlie has then been rude, on a publicly viewable post, about a black woman's make-up, at a particular store. So she's identifiable, too. White male customer being rude about black staff member's appearance. This is seriously problematic. This looks like racism and classism to me.

And then we have you, Janet, apparently condoning that, and instead going after an MNer who has positive recollections of unidentified women she has met, who didn't defer to bepenised people.

Dodgyyyyyy. Did you just not bother to read the screenshot?

As for "towards trans people"? Give me a break. Penis does NOT equal trans. There are many people who are not trans, who have a penis. And there are many people who do not have a penis, who are not trans.

,Or are you just going to have a go at the MNer who only has positive things to say about her experiences of older afro-Caribbean women?
It was more the '' I've met old a Carribbean women and this is what they and their attitudes are like. ''
Bit of a generalisation, what all?
Seems a weird thing to say, it's not something you'd usually say about people just because you've met a couple.
Different to a description of one person, even if it wasn't a complimentary one.

Still no comment on whether it’s acceptable for a young bloke to criticise the appearance of an older Afro Caribbean woman then?

There seems to be an awful lot of casual misogyny racism and homophobia amongst many " so called " allies of transgender people .They only harm the people they pretend to support by behaving in such a manner.

A prom dress in Monsoon?

Really? I thought it was aimed at a more mature clientele.

Or kids. Kids stuff is cute.

Seriously, the optics on this are very, very poor.

They usually are once they are held up for scrutiny.

And as they always do, the disrespect for females needing privacy and feeling safe is always ignored. The level of self-absorption is always dialed to the highest level in these cases of males accessing female safe spaces.

@334bu

There seems to be an awful lot of casual misogyny racism and homophobia amongst many " so called " allies of transgender people .They only harm the people they pretend to support by behaving in such a manner.

And many instances of them going off at minimum wage customer service staff, yet they fancy themselves as class warriors.

@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor

Upmost to serve them, a new prom dress

It's utmost. Another reason not to shop there

Yeah i know. That's why i picked it specifically, as it was wrong.

@GoodJanetBadJanet

,Or are you just going to have a go at the MNer who only has positive things to say about her experiences of older afro-Caribbean women? It was more the '' I've met old a Carribbean women and this is what they and their attitudes are like. '' Bit of a generalisation, what all? Seems a weird thing to say, it's not something you'd usually say about people just because you've met a couple. Different to a description of one person, even if it wasn't a complimentary one.

I have been living in London for over 30 years, I promise you I have met significantly more than a couple of older Afro-Caribbean ladies. I can be accused of stereotyping, which is why I said it was my own experience.

And to expand on that, I was and remain impressed with how they handle male entitlement, in stark contrast to the older ladies of my own ethnic group, where men were fucking sacred!

Hm. Young male is asked to wait, can't handle it because of special status entitlement, publically sneers at staff member's appearance, age, race. And is rewarded for It? FFS

These people have never delt with toddlers have they?

@MsTSwift

Still no comment on whether it’s acceptable for a young bloke to criticise the appearance of an older Afro Caribbean woman then?

Of course not! That will be avoided at all costs.

@DomesticatedZombie

Hm. Young male is asked to wait, can't handle it because of special status entitlement, publically sneers at staff member's appearance, age, race. And is rewarded for It? FFS

He expected everyone else to move out of his glittery way and release rainbows and sparkles because he is special. And they didn't. So they must pay.

Not sure if this warrants a thread or whether I can just piggyback on this, but can someone explain to me why transgenderism ( ? ) is a feminist topic? Not necessarily in terms of the sanctity of single sex spaces because that's quite an obvious one, but why transgender people expect feminists to help carry their cause and support it unconditionally?

I can understand that transgender people encounter ignorance, hate and discrimination but why in this case, does the perceived "discrimination" of one individual trump the security of all women who use these changing rooms. Surely rather than Monsoon wringing their hands promising an investigation, it'd just be better to change the returns policy so people can try at home and take it back if it doesn't suit - we know it's possible because we've seen it done during Covid!

I'm probably not making myself very clear, sorry. I'm a feminist and I have enjoyed single sex spaces for most of my life in the UK until I moved to a European country- they don't exist over here. There are no girls schools, no ladies only swimming hours, too few single sex toilets... I'm a Mum of three daughters and I miss these spaces, once you lose them they are gone forever.

I have emailed Customer Services, as I am secretary of a ladies lunch club. We are all livid at this shit and want to be assured that men are not allowed in women's changing rooms.

I'll be sending their reply to everyone-about 30 women and if it does not clearly say that Monsoon don;t allow men in the women's changing room then they and all the other women they know won't be shopping there.

Just as we shouldn't vote for a party that thinks defining a woman is complicated, nor should we shop at places that bend over backwards to grovel at the feet of a man who wants to metaphorically piss on women.

If we don't start to do this in a big way and soon, women's spaces will be erased.

why transgender people expect feminists to help carry their cause and support it unconditionally?

Isn’t it a newly defined intersectional feminism issue, as opposed to the previous iteration of intersectional feminism?

That feminists fight against all oppression not just sex based oppression and other oppression that directly impacts females.

I feel so sorry for the member of staff concerned.

I used to work in retail, many years ago when my children were small. I was really under-confident and was only there because we desperately needed the money, and because the shop was open until 8pm I could do the evenings around DH's work hours. The company I worked for had a mystery shopper thing, and I lived in constant fear of being the one who got this customer. The interaction would be filmed and used in staff training, and I was terrified of finding myself in that kind of spotlight, my performance being shown in all the branches and critiqued by other staff.

That was in the age before social media. To think of this woman, doing her job to the best of her ability, thinking on her feet and being mindful and respectful of the other customers using the changing room, and then being pilloried as a transphobe on social media and having her appearance mocked by a spoiled, entitled teenage boy is just hideous. I can't stop thinking about how that must feel.