Times on Sex Matters survey: 8 in 10 teachers say their secondary school has trans or non-binary pupils

[ResisterRex]

This is in today's paper and states again that Dept for Education is working on the guidelines.

8 in 10 teachers say their secondary school has trans pupils

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f2a3bcfe-b906-11ec-94e5-2197dead5942?shareToken=429e243ebe8065bf8d9d275c535357a9

"Asked what they thought had contributed to students’ altered identity, approximately 60 per cent of secondary school teachers cited there being trans or non-binary celebrities in the media. About 80 per cent said their school would refer to a pupil by their chosen name and pronouns if asked by a trans or non-binary student and their parent."

And

"A spokesman for the Department for Education said yesterday: “We recognise that gender identity can be a complex and sensitive topic for schools to navigate.

“We know many teachers are having these important conversations with their pupils, including through the relationship, sex and health education curriculum which is designed to foster respect for others in a way that respects everyone’s views.

“We will be working with the Equalities and Human Rights Commission as we consider our next steps for supporting schools in this area.”"

"You seem to have simply fallen into defending the material you teach as having no power at all to shape it "

As a supply teacher this is generally the case. I can only make certain tweaks and add verbal calcifications

This thread has been eye-opening. This is how falsehoods get traction, it’s how lies become policy.

Useful idiots who will say anything if it’s sent to them in 10pt font.

Clearly I'm not

This is not clear at all. In fact, your posts are very much along the lines of what we see from extreme trans activists. So, I very much disagree that 'clearly' you are anything.

Dammit. I need to type slower!

and that you seem to think parents on this forum have little direct experience and a huge depth of knowledge on current policies and guidances.

should be

and that you seem to think parents on this forum have little direct experience and don't have a huge depth of knowledge on current policies and guidances.

I think the fact that their is blindness in following such nonsense by teachers is very worrying. It isn't teaching students its indoctrination and that is not what should be happening to children and young people. Increasingly undermining the majority for the sake of the few who believe the dangerous ideology

@walksen

So do your female students believe lesbians have a penis ?

Hasn't come up and not something I would proactively raise

Would you correct them if you could?

As I've stated previously this would be personal preference.

Do you worry about sexual coercion of young lesbians?

We advise all pupils about consent coercion etc to the extent we are able. There is very limited time to discuss these issues with all other areas we are expected to cover in school these days. Generally I acknowledge that anyone can be exploited but girls are at higher risk.

What would you tell the girls mentioned on here that have been told they are transphobic for not including wonen with penises in their dating pool.

As I've stated previously this would be personal preference.

I think you will find that alot of kids that don't agree with it or might want to ask a question don't bring it up because they are scared of how their peers might view them, they don't want to look 'transphobic.' This is a failure of schools.

A child at my kids school thought they were being 'inclusive' by saying that people no matter their sexual orientation should have sex with transwomen.

Teachers as 'trusted' adults won't speak facts to clear this mess up and kids carry on thinking they are transphobic if they don't want to have sex with someone out of their sexual orientation.

I find it so astounding teachers don't understand how removing boundaries and meaning of language is detrimental to children.

‘A child at my kids school thought they were being 'inclusive' by saying that people no matter their sexual orientation should have sex with transwomen.’

This is so upsetting.

(As a supply teacher this is generally the case. I can only make certain tweaks and add verbal calcifications

Sure. And what do you do to make sure that the material is actually understood?

You know, you do have the power as a teacher to approach the local authority if you think something is unclear and needs to be better supported. You actually would have quite a bit of opportunity to make sure material is not being misinterpreted in a harmful way.

And that if parents bring up valid points, they might well be doing it because they actually do know what they are talking about.

So, starting from the point that they are not 'offensive conspiracy theorist' would actually be a good place. And tolerant too.

"We are telling you what is happening and you seem to be denying that it happens"

I am also telling you what is happening and it is not trans activist teachers deliberately putting pupils at risk. In my experience pastoral teams do the best they can for all pupils under difficult circumstances. Posters may feel that is not the case but it isn't except I suppose in a minority of cases. No teachers I've met would be their beliefs whether pro trans or gender critical would put their beliefs in a child and do not make decisions in isolation anyway. Mistakes may be made but I would utterly refute that it is due to trans activism.

I haven't lied in any of my posts, nor pretended or claimed to be more knowledgeable then I am, but many people jumped to the conclusion I am an activist and it should clear by now that I am anything but. Project that on to 99% of teachers.

And yet I have been accused by many of bring a trans activist regardless, because that is what many posters on here believe is shaping policy in schools. Clearly I'm not and neither are my colleagues....

There's no contradiction here - you don't have to be a biblical scholar or theologian or priest to be a Christian. Even if you're just handing out the prayer books and taking the collection, you're a Christian.

Same thing for trans activists - some are deep in the gender theory, some are just participating in the rituals or denunciations without a deep understanding.

(It's clear from seeing most trans activist protests that the protesters generally have a very shallow understanding of their cause, or their opponents. This seems to be the norm, not the exception).

"I think you will find that alot of kids that don't agree with it or might want to ask a question don't bring it up because they are scared of how their peers might view them, they don't want to look 'transphobic.'
This is a failure of schools."

I don't doubt it a d issues like these crop up at breaktimes, social media etc and have to be picked up at school.

Schools are a microcosm of society. These beliefs percolate through from parents, TV, Twitter etc. Adults in society disagree vehemently on issues such as single sex spaces and transphobia etc. It's a bit naive to think that schools can resolve all of these issues but they do what they can

‘It's a bit naive to think that schools can resolve all of these issues but they do what they can’

Schools are not doing ‘what they can’ by inviting in Mermaids and Stonewall to teach kids unscientific tripe using the Genderbread person.

Look, this is not difficult.

“There is a range of legitimate opinion about the nature of gender. Some people believe it’s innate and immutable, other people think it’s fluid, other people don’t recognise the concept.

Sex is binary and immutable.’

Done.

What exactly is the issue, if you put bias aside?

"So, starting from the point that they are not 'offensive conspiracy theorist' would actually be a good place. And tolerant too"

Similarly. One could start from a position that schools are not full of trans activists. They mirror trends and changes in society. It is not teachers fault you are not happy with these trends...

‘They mirror trends and changes in society.’

Schools are meant to teach facts and discuss political issues in a neutral way.

You are simply wrong about your obligations here.

"Schools are not doing ‘what they can’ by inviting in Mermaids and Stonewall to teach kids unscientific tripe using the Genderbread person"

One could argue that these organisations are influential in hay and trans communities etc and inviting them to share their idealogy which helps people relate to members of those communities.

Using a previous posters analogy about religion. We teach kids about the beliefs of different religions, often at quite a superficial level

That doesn,'t mean we are trying to convert anyone.

‘One could argue that these organisations are influential in hay and trans communities etc and inviting them to share their idealogy which helps people relate to members of those communities.’

Being influential doesn’t give anyone a position to teach their ideology to children as fact.

‘Using a previous posters analogy about religion. We teach kids about the beliefs of different religions, often at quite a superficial level.’

Yep. We tell the children these things are BELIEFS that SOME PEOPLE hold and that they are not obligated to participate in.

‘That doesn,'t mean we are trying to convert anyone.’

If you teach it as fact it does.

"You are simply wrong about your obligations here"

At the risk of being accused of an activist again

Homosexuality was not taught in schools when it was illegal but that changed. Over timr sexual orientation became protected and more and more work is done on homophobia but it still happens.

Discussions and what is taught in schools mirrors the debates and policies that are occurring in the wider world about trans and gender critical issues and will continue to change as those debates do .

I am not in charge or in any position to influence these policies, regardless of whether you think I should. Are all the governing bodies and wrong as well?

It's a bit naive to think that schools can resolve all of these issues but they do what they can

I personally don't believe that schools can resolve all these issues. However, I also believe that this issue is being poorly handled in some schools. I have had discussions with my teen's school and on their handling of 'gender identities' they are very brief, matter of fact and focus hugely on 'consent' instead.

However, they have still changed at least two student's records that I know of without parental consent. That should not be happening and I disagree with this approach.

I also have great sympathy for teachers in how they can deal with this issue. Because they are given some pretty biased guidance by lobby groups and often it is well-meaning. But the issue is treating parents who are telling you there is issues in the way you have demonstrated on this thread.

but many people jumped to the conclusion I am an activist and it should clear by now that I am anything but

Again, why should we trust you after you have rolled out activist lines and denigrated posters on this thread? Not only name calling, but also using false activist comparators such as Section 28.

Do you realise that use of those false comparators are designed to silence discussion through shaming posters? Was that not your intention in using Section 28 comparisons when that is false?

You say you are 'not an activist', yet your posts most certainly do reflect activist style of communication.

@walksen

"I think you will find that alot of kids that don't agree with it or might want to ask a question don't bring it up because they are scared of how their peers might view them, they don't want to look 'transphobic.' This is a failure of schools."

I don't doubt it a d issues like these crop up at breaktimes, social media etc and have to be picked up at school.

Schools are a microcosm of society. These beliefs percolate through from parents, TV, Twitter etc. Adults in society disagree vehemently on issues such as single sex spaces and transphobia etc. It's a bit naive to think that schools can resolve all of these issues but they do what they can

Rubbish, with all the pro trans posters around school saying things like 'Its great to be Trans!' or 'People are Trans get over it!' that's a particular poster that confused my child, acting like the kids have a problem with it, it's a hostile message to send out and it doesn't belong in a school environment. As well as the LGBTQ club that is run and the children get to adapt their uniform to rainbows and parade around with their rainbow flags. Please don't act like it isn't apart of the school environment.

With the added outside influences especially social media it's even more of a reason teachers should be dealing in facts, instead they are dealing with opinion, in mine it's just a one sided one unfortunately.

Homosexuality is a fact. Nobody ever denied that people were attracted to others of the same sex (until recently). The prohibition against teaching it was moralistic, and morals can shift.

Scientific fact can also shift, so when it is shown that there is such a thing as ‘gender identity’ that exists as an identifiable part of the human biological or psychological structure for every person, I’ll agree that it’s okay to teach kids that.

Until then, yes, they are wrong, and you are unfit to teach (because you pretend it’s not your job to teach kids things that are supported by that thing we can evidence).

@walksen

"You seem to have simply fallen into defending the material you teach as having no power at all to shape it "

As a supply teacher this is generally the case. I can only make certain tweaks and add verbal calcifications

I am drawn to the notion of "verbal calcifications" as that is an unexpectedly honest (though probably Freudian) way to describe them.

Your earlier claims feel somewhat out of sync with your current 'only following orders and teaching pre-determined materials into which I have no input' stance.

Similarly. One could start from a position that schools are not full of trans activists. They mirror trends and changes in society. It is not teachers fault you are not happy with these trends...

And we continue with the 'absolutism'. It really is just another way to block discussion.

Please feel free to copy and paste any post that is accusing all teachers and schools of being full of trans activists.

And please do stop with the minimising of the school's responsbilities here.

They mirror trends and changes in society. It is not teachers fault you are not happy with these trends...

Really fuck off with that. Schools should not be mirroring 'trends' at all. Particularly not harmful ones. They should be teaching facts and they should be not 'preaching' any particular 'side' of this debate. It IS teacher's faults if they are indeed teaching difficult concepts in ways that can be misinterpreted.

That comment of yours is still following the same lines as 'you are conspiracy theorists' and 'offensive'.

", I’ll agree that it’s okay to teach kids that.

Until then, yes, they are wrong, and you are unfit to teach (because you pretend it’s not your job to teach kids things that are supported by that thing we can evidence)." Like religion, then?

On both counts,like it or not, the people/ bodies that matter disagree with you.

Your earlier claims feel somewhat out of sync with your current 'only following orders and teaching pre-determined materials into which I have no input' stance.

As usual Embarassing you are able to succinctly parse my rambling into one concise sentence.