Times on Sex Matters survey: 8 in 10 teachers say their secondary school has trans or non-binary pupils

[ResisterRex]

This is in today's paper and states again that Dept for Education is working on the guidelines.

8 in 10 teachers say their secondary school has trans pupils

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f2a3bcfe-b906-11ec-94e5-2197dead5942?shareToken=429e243ebe8065bf8d9d275c535357a9

"Asked what they thought had contributed to students’ altered identity, approximately 60 per cent of secondary school teachers cited there being trans or non-binary celebrities in the media. About 80 per cent said their school would refer to a pupil by their chosen name and pronouns if asked by a trans or non-binary student and their parent."

And

"A spokesman for the Department for Education said yesterday: “We recognise that gender identity can be a complex and sensitive topic for schools to navigate.

“We know many teachers are having these important conversations with their pupils, including through the relationship, sex and health education curriculum which is designed to foster respect for others in a way that respects everyone’s views.

“We will be working with the Equalities and Human Rights Commission as we consider our next steps for supporting schools in this area.”"

It is NOT my job to out students to their parents. It is my job to report any safeguarding concerns. I can think of several cases in my career when it would have been dangerous for that student to have been outed to their parents.
My school didn't put me as bi to my parents. I am hugely glad of this. I am also glad they ignored section 28 and happily normalised homosexuality.
Support and encourage students to be open with the parents, yes. Wholeheartedly. Put them without consent, no.

Doesn't "goes by" usually mean:

Full name: Thomas
Goes by: Tom

?

And if a child goes on a trip then they don't give a "goes by" on the parental consent form do they? You write it out in full.

But if a child has an accident at school or on a trip and needs medical help, then the name the school gives the ambulance is important. What if they need to contact the GP? You need correct details.

@GrammarTeacher , is it "outing" to tell loving parents that their child is claiming to be transgender. And yes, I know not all parents are loving- which is where safeguarding rules should apply.
That's not the same as outing their sexual orientation- which I agree is not your information to share unless you have safeguarding concerns. Gender identity is not sexual orientation. It just isn't

Grammar: You need to leave your own issues out of this and think of your actual responsibilities. These are children. Schools have no right to withhold information relevant to their healthcare from their parents. If there is a known risk factor in the home, the DSL should take a view accordingly and perhaps contact SS. Otherwise, this is medically relevant information and the parents have every right to it.

This has nothing to do with sexuality. Gender distress dysphoria is a healthcare issue.

‘Doesn't "goes by" usually mean:

Full name: Thomas
Goes by: Tom’

Sometimes. But sometimes the child might be addressed by (and by everyone) by a middle name, or they might use their mother’s surname after a split from an abusive parent. There are circumstances where it’s useful.

But yes, it can cause issues as well.

@GrammarTeacher

It is NOT my job to out students to their parents. It is my job to report any safeguarding concerns. I can think of several cases in my career when it would have been dangerous for that student to have been outed to their parents. My school didn't put me as bi to my parents. I am hugely glad of this. I am also glad they ignored section 28 and happily normalised homosexuality. Support and encourage students to be open with the parents, yes. Wholeheartedly. Put them without consent, no.

GrammarTeacher in which case you will be in breach of safeguarding protocols, the interim Cass report into children who identify as transgender and the government's own guidance.

The government's Cass report calls social transition not a neutral intervention. School teachers do not have the rights to intervene in this way without parental consent.

Similarly, from Safe Schools Alliance

"By following a policy of affirmation without parental knowledge or consent, schools are opening themselves up to potential legal action for not abiding by statutory guidance and being in breach of the Education Act 1996."

"There is no long-term evidence-base to support the affirmative approach to gender and the Department for Education does not support schools’ social transitioning of a child without their parents’ knowledge."

Social transition is the biggest indication of further transition. Which can include puberty blockers, cross sex hormones and surgery.

Socially transitioning a minor is not a neutral act and you should not start it without parental consent.

Safe School Alliance have resources to send to schools about this issue. It is a safe guarding issue not to tell parents. Keeping secrets with adults is a safeguarding issue. As with rogdmum asking a brother to collude in that secret is a safeguarding issue.
Being gay, bi or lesbian is irrelevant here as there is no risk of medicalisation with sexual orientation. Gender identity is not about sexual orientation, it is very distinct. Most girls who say they are boys have experienced trauma, sexual abuse, are autistic (diagnosed or undiagnosed) are looked after girls (in care) or are actually lesbians. The child needs support via watchful waiting not affirmation.
SSA advice note 2, what to do if you think your child is being socially transitioned by your school.
Also great resources to help communicate with your school from Transgender Trend.
www.transgendertrend.com/
safeschoolsallianceuk.net/resources-2/factsheets/#Advice_Note_on_Social_Transitioning_by_Schools
Our Duty are also very good.
ourduty.group/united-kingdom/

We should all write to our schools, ensure they have this information and SSA's comment on the CASS report, it's on my to do list for Easter.
safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2022/03/26/the-cass-review-into-gender-identity-services/

@MsGoodenough "Anecdotal from personal experience, but it's much less common to Id as trans and non-binary in ethnic minority and white working class demographics. We haven't had any students Iding as trans at my school. The students ask "isn't it just like identifying as black?' I nod thoughtfully...."

Yes, my teenage relatives first encountered it when they moved to more 'middle class' schools. It seems very much the new Emo or Goth with added Heathers: make a verbal slip and the 'gang' report 'misgenderings' to the teachers. Another relative with younger children says it's trendy with mums where she is, 'but it's Totnes'. Young children who would 5 years ago have just been regarded as playing dress-up are now labelled as 'trans' and thus hip and special.

Our school is one that changes records without parents knowledge. And Grammar, out of the 5 of my teen’s friends who all declared themselves trans how many do you think the school should be changing the 14/15 year old girls’ records for without parental consent?

FFS two sets had no idea until the report letters came out with their daughter’s new names on. How is that helping the situation? Luckily one of the others simply has shortened their name and accepts the school leaving the long name officially and I dont know the other two girl’s families. Having secrets like that kept by the school is allowing them to be living double lives.

Each of those 5 teenagers has very poor mental health and living these double lives is certainly not helping.

The charities that are advising these teens to make these changes simply cannot acknowledge the harm these secretive moves are causing these teens.

Exactly who benefits from telling children and teens that have families who love and support them that many families don’t and that their families may abuse them or worse if they know?

That information is being shared through peer groups. There were two girls getting binders delivered to their friends houses so their parents didn’t know as well. One of the girls was also in online chat rooms with other ‘trans people’ and ended up sharing child sex abuse content out to the other six friends thinking it was funny.

You don’t seem to have an in-depth understanding of this issue. If you as a teacher cannot see where this information is coming from and the dangers that underlie in the type of information and other safeguarding issues stemming from those information sources, then you have your own issues to work with.

Ask yourself why a child might not want to tell their parents but is happy to confide in a sympathetic teacher. Not all parents are open to the idea of their child being trans/non binary/gay or whatever. Maybe a child is struggling to tell his parents but they are openly homo or transphobic . I'm not saying I agree with long term withholding of this info from parents but an a responsible adult could help the child to consider how to break the news to hostile parents.

@Helleofabore we cross posted. That I do not agree with.

It’s got to the stage where they act like total TRAs and my eldest has now distanced herself.

Yes. My teen has distanced themselves from the group they were in now too. And feels so much happier. It was the constant whipping up of emotion that was simply too much. The constant stories of being mid-gendered, or slighted in any way, and the ‘who will come and burn their house down’ mentality was difficult to deal with.

Schools are definitely creating this idea kids aren't safe to tell their parents. Parents that in many cases they have had no concerns about up to this point.

We need to actually define what transphobia is. Because if this " not safe" stuff is merely that parehts believe in biopog and won't source their kid a damaging device like a binder then all they are doing is isolating the child from.tgeor parents creating a situation where the kid is extremely vulnerable and alone. That's the danger..not living parents who won't allow dangerous medications akd medical devices.

Schools are not there to validate identities. They are there to teach. Stick to that.

A child confiding in a teacher they are gay does not require any active intervention by that teacher.

A child telling a teacher they are "trans" and the teacher then changing the child's record of their sex, name and instructing (and presumably enforcing) everyone else referring to that child as if they are actually the opposite sex (with new pronouns etc) is a huge intervention in that child's life that surely should not be done without parental involvement and consent (and I would argue under the direction and supervision of health care professionals).

The two things are in no way the same. Activist teachers are massively overstepping the boundaries and it needs sorting out.

‘Ask yourself why a child might not want to tell their parents but is happy to confide in a sympathetic teacher. Not all parents are open to the idea of their child being trans/non binary/gay or whatever.’

That is not a judgment for the teacher to make unless there is evidence of a safeguarding concern, and in that case they need to act on that evidence. Gender dysphoria is a healthcare issue and the child needs care. Hiding this is not only not acceptable in terms of the teacher overriding parental responsibility, it’s actively negligent.

What if the child self-harms, or worse, and you as a teacher were involved in concealing their dysphoria from their parent?

This is mad.

I'm not saying I agree with long term withholding of this info from parents but an a responsible adult could help the child to consider how to break the news to hostile parents.

A responsible adult would definitely help a student to break the news.

And I also acknowledge that some parents may be hostile and abusive. But I also know that many are not and still the withholding of information is occurring.

On a deeper level, the safety risks of these vulnerable children and teens is coming from many sources. And I have seen the impact directly where child sex abuse material has been shared (which is perpetuating child sex abuse) and was obtained from the type of chat rooms these early teens are finding themselves getting into.

hell my dd was in tears when she told me she was a lesbian. Theyd all.worked themselves up into a right panic because its all " they kill you in some countries " " some.parents beat their kids" etc and everyone's homophobic/transphobic.

Once she calmed down she couldn't even tell.ne why she felt that way. She knew I'd he fine they've been taught from a young age that men can marry men and women can marry women. Both my dds have. I'd even recently been to my friends wedding to her wife fgs.

Schools are facilitating this. Allowing kids to scare themselves stupid that their loving supportive parents are suddenly going to throw them out or they are leaving in a wooden box.

FYI they were all fine no drama at any ofnthe houses it was all just kids winding each other up while teachers offer to be mentors etc

Its extremely sinister

@Eelicks

A child confiding in a teacher they are gay does not require any active intervention by that teacher.

A child telling a teacher they are "trans" and the teacher then changing the child's record of their sex, name and instructing (and presumably enforcing) everyone else referring to that child as if they are actually the opposite sex (with new pronouns etc) is a huge intervention in that child's life that surely should not be done without parental involvement and consent (and I would argue under the direction and supervision of health care professionals).

The two things are in no way the same. Activist teachers are massively overstepping the boundaries and it needs sorting out.

And this is what has come about with the manipulative approach of using section 28 as a comparator. It is a harmful and false comparison to make. And really does indicate a lack of deeper understanding of just what is happening here.

I’d go as far as to say that schools removing gender distressed children from their normal safeguarding processes (ie keeping secrets from parents by claiming safeguarding concerns if they are told), are discriminating against those children under gender reassignment. Our children deserve the same levels of safeguarding as every other child, and that includes notifying parents about a requested social transition at school so that the parents can fully explore the issue.

I hope the final Cass report finally puts this naivety to bed.

I hear you Scully. It was similar with our teen as well. The massive anxiety it caused them. And afterwards, exactly the same. They looked back and realized we had always said ‘yes, when you want to get married, it can be to who ever you love! (But no, not me or your dad)’. We had never pushed about ‘girlfriends or boyfriends’. The fear came from conversations with their friends.

Let’s all face it, as well, activist teachers aren’t withholding this information because they think the parents are going to hurt/abuse the child in any physical way. It’s because they have defined in their own heads that disagreement = abuse.

But again, not their decision to make, and absolutely discriminatory.

My views is that their is no such thing as "non-binary," I also do not believe people can change their sex or gender. Therefore I believe that schools should not be pushing this agenda. I do believe that there is no "typical" girl, boy, man or woman - we are all individuals and as such we are all unique - we wear different clothes, have different view, different ways of life and interests.
Schools should not be pushing this agenda but we should accept people being different but not changing what they are.

Its all just to heavy at schools. Their identity/sexuality should actually be the least interesting thing about them. Alot ofbthrse teens literally seen to have no outside interests or activities beyond hanging out with their friends who are also just like them.

Not that there's anything wrong wotg hanging out with friends just that I feel.its extremely precarious to have everything all wrapped up together like that. Schools should be encouraging being involved in lots of things, enabling diverse group of friends , and even how to work alongside people who aren't your friends but you still need to talk to/work with/be civil too etc.

Instead it alls seems to be about this one thing.

much less common to Id as trans and non-binary in ethnic minority and white working class demographics. We haven't had any students Iding as trans at my school.

I am consistently told there are disproportionate numbers of looked-after/fostered children who are self-IDing as trans but the only report that people point me towards is in the US where the system is so different that I don't consider it a useful comparator.

I'd expect a number of schools in the UK to have children who are looked after/fostered. I understand the instability of background and the stresses it creates so it seems feasible that uncertainties might contribute to being caught up in this social phenomenon.

I obviously need to read Sex Matters' report to understand the breakdown and any analysis.