Times on Sex Matters survey: 8 in 10 teachers say their secondary school has trans or non-binary pupils

[ResisterRex]

This is in today's paper and states again that Dept for Education is working on the guidelines.

8 in 10 teachers say their secondary school has trans pupils

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f2a3bcfe-b906-11ec-94e5-2197dead5942?shareToken=429e243ebe8065bf8d9d275c535357a9

"Asked what they thought had contributed to students’ altered identity, approximately 60 per cent of secondary school teachers cited there being trans or non-binary celebrities in the media. About 80 per cent said their school would refer to a pupil by their chosen name and pronouns if asked by a trans or non-binary student and their parent."

And

"A spokesman for the Department for Education said yesterday: “We recognise that gender identity can be a complex and sensitive topic for schools to navigate.

“We know many teachers are having these important conversations with their pupils, including through the relationship, sex and health education curriculum which is designed to foster respect for others in a way that respects everyone’s views.

“We will be working with the Equalities and Human Rights Commission as we consider our next steps for supporting schools in this area.”"

@walksen

"You are coming across as though you are happy to promote a very questionable ideology"

No I am teaching a model that has been agreed by the relevant school leadership team , approved in the school policies and signed off by the governor's. this makes me an activist apparently?
I recognise this may not be an idealogy you agree with,in which case raise it with your child's school. You would probably find that schools are full of overworked overwhelmed teachers and are organisations of glacial beauracracy. As I said the pedagogy and approach may change but probably very gradually.

If I went to a different school there would be small variations in what was taught. I still fail to see where any of this causes exploitation.

School policies still have to comply with the law.

Many of these guidelines produced by schools and local authorities have been withdrawn because they were found to be in breach of the law.

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2020/05/08/oxfordshire-guidance-withdrawn-for-review/

@walksen

"Do you think that Lesbians should accept men with penises"

Did you mean women with penises? That would be up to the individual lesbian surely.

Women don't have penises. Women are female.

I don’t think there’s any great conspiracy. I do think where an activist school is pushing gender ideology, great harm can be done. Here’s a screenshot from the last paragraph of the Guidance for Transgender Pupils at my daughter’s school. It says:

“The linked pdf does not represent the views or approach taken by [school]. The article, on gender dysphoria serves to help those professionals who are supporting young people to understand that there may be parents/carers who feel that an ‘affirmative approach’ is unhelpful and that their child is gender dysphoric rather than trans.”

The linked pdf is to this page:

www.transgendertrend.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Current-Evidence-in-the-Treatment-of-Gender-Dysphoric-Children-and-Young-People.pdf

As a parent, where do you even start with that? The school seems to be telling their teachers that they believe in some sort of gendered soul, that they don’t believe in gender dysphoria?

It is incomprehensible.

‘ No I am teaching a model that has been agreed by the relevant school leadership team , approved in the school policies and signed off by the governor's. this makes me an activist apparently?’

So you admit you are teaching kids something you don’t understand and can’t critique?

"Many of these guidelines produced by schools and local authorities have been withdrawn because they were found to be in breach of the law"

As I said the pedagogy will evolve and develop over time if it is found to be more accessible and to comply with changing legal frameworks etc.

I've already stated that we "lie" to students all the time by providing out of date simplified models that are accessible to them. These models are modified and expanded upon as we get older.

As I stated have you still not realised that most teachers are not activists out to promote certain choice? We are simply teaching along guidelines and using approaches that change as society does, but not driving those changes ourselves?

Did you mean women with penises? That would be up to the individual lesbian surely.

And yet, I have also witnessed a conversation between 7 teens, most of who are homosexual where these friends are telling the group that to not accept 'dick' if it is a 'lesbian dick' is horrifically transphobic.

Do you understand the degree of peer pressure that is being applied to these teens by their friends?

‘As I stated have you still not realised that most teachers are not activists out to promote certain choice? We are simply teaching along guidelines and using approaches that change as society does, but not driving those changes ourselves?’

When I was a teacher, if I didn’t understand what I was being asked to teach, I did NOT (and would never) just teach it anyway. If a group of people who did understand it told me it represented a safeguarding concern, I did not (and would never) call them hysterical.

I educated myself, and I raised the concerns on their behalf.

Because that is what anyone with a gram of integrity would do.

You are simply parroting what you have been told.

So you view the simplification a lie but not the teachings themselves?

The school is a place for learning - yes I accept that learning involves being able to analyse, evaluate and make a judgement but these concepts do not have a place in the curriculum. Sex/gender is fact - students should be treated in may view as they were at birth. There are of course students and children with mental health issues and there should be provision to support such students - but not to suggest they move from one sex/gender to another. The whole exclusion of parents is deliberate - deliberately taking the view the parent is a negative influence. At the end of the day we are talking about children and young people who are taking actions and making decisions that will alter there life - maybe they aren't immediately prescribed medication but they are on a road to that which in my view is very sad. There are children and young people with more often than not mental health issues - or who merely want to be one of the increasingly "on trend" individuals. The sooner this ideology is debunked and the population at large wake up to the damage that this pressure group are doing the better. Its an invention of an issue and a cause which has become so complex because of the increasing definitions and number of genders that have been invented - deliberately so in order to look intellectual and to give credibility but underneath it is just nonsense. Dangerous nonsense for those who get sucked in

"and can’t critique?"

More a case of not allowed to critique it, in the same way I am not allowed to critique government decisions.

Generally, as I said the aim is to developed tolerance and inclusion within the school community. When questioned I may comment on differing beliefs of the gender critical and trans tight e.g on single sex spaces but not take express a position myself.

Nothing is your job. Everything is passed onto everyone else. If they dont tell parents it's not your problem. You stick to "approved materials" and because they are approved it doesn't actually matter to you what they say ir whether you are lying to the children because checking then.was someone else's job also. Amd you won't answer any questions because none of it is your responsibility.

In a different and relevant overlapping field, that's what Balint names the collusion of anonymity: nobody takes responsibility for the person at the heart. However, in the matter under discussion, the parents may be kept uninformed and actively blocked from participation.

www.asociatiabalint.ro/english_reports/THE%20COLLUSION%20OF%20ANONYMITY.pdf

I've already stated that we "lie" to students all the time by providing out of date simplified models that are accessible to them. These models are modified and expanded upon as we get older.

I don't believe that teaching a simplified model of atoms has any life long impact compared to teaching that some people might be 'in the wrong body' or 'can change sex' (however you word that). To try to draw this as a comparator is also false.

As I stated have you still not realised that most teachers are not activists out to promote certain choice? We are simply teaching along guidelines and using approaches that change as society does, but not driving those changes ourselves?

Right. Yet, here you are on this thread denigrating parents who are expressing concerns about what is being taught to their children and pointing out the legitimate safeguarding issues that are being poorly handled.

You might not be 'driving those changes' but here you are calling concerned parents 'conspiracy theorists', and telling parents just how offensive they are.

You certainly have not demonstrated that you have any depth of knowledge about this particular issue at all. You have demonstrated that you are quite clearly entrenched in having a particular view though and that you believe the parents are deluded conspiracy theorists and such.

You are keen to tell parents just how wrong they are without any substance to your own argument at all.

‘More a case of not allowed to critique it, in the same way I am not allowed to critique government decisions.’

You are allowed to critique government decisions. You have to present political issues in a balanced way and scientific issues in a factual way. You are abdicating your personal responsibility as a teacher to someone else who wrote a PowerPoint for you.

I’m beyond furious that someone like you is allowed to teach and won’t be responding to you again because that anger will get the better of me.

You aren't teaching now though. You are anonymous on a forum

So do your female students believe lesbians have a penis ?

Would you correct them if you could?

Do you worry about sexual coercion of young lesbians?

What would you tell the girls mentioned on here that have been told they are transphobic for not including wonen with penises in their dating pool.

Does it worry you at all ?

Generally, as I said the aim is to developed tolerance and inclusion within the school community.

Excellent. Maybe take on board some of the examples people have posted as actually happening and not writing them off as lies and hate.

And speaking of 'conspiracies' maybe you could also post those examples stating that teachers are deliberately exploiting mental illnesses of children.

"lie but not the teachings themselves"

It is simply a model that pupils can access. These lessons are intended to teach tolerance for others. Some people agree with it and others do not. Which definition of homosexuality is fact and which a lie.? Or is it just that it can be defined in Different ways that people disagree over?

You are abdicating your personal responsibility as a teacher to someone else who wrote a PowerPoint for you.

That's spot on.

Vaclav Havel, 1978 has some prescient observations about mantras and the unthinking adoption of an ideology and the true cost of the absolution that it confers.

In an era when metaphysical and existential certainties are in a state of crisis, when people are being uprooted and alienated and are losing their sense of what this world means, this ideology inevitably has a certain hypnotic charm. To wandering humankind it offers an immediately available home: all one has to do is accept it, and suddenly everything becomes clear once more, life takes on new meaning, and all mysteries, unanswered questions, anxiety, and loneliness vanish. Of course, one pays dearly for this low-rent home: the price is abdication of one’ s own reason, conscience, and responsibility, for an essential aspect of this ideology is the consignment of reason and conscience to a higher authority.

hac.bard.edu/amor-mundi/the-power-of-the-powerless-vaclav-havel-2011-12-23

There is only one definition of homosexuality. Same sex attraction. Of you believe 2 males can be lesbians or that a heterosexual couple can infant also call themselves lesbains or gay men it is you that is teaching intolerance and homphobia.

Not us

Of you believe 2 males can be lesbians or that a heterosexual couple can infant also call themselves lesbains or gay men it is you that is teaching intolerance and homphobia.

We're the open-minded ones here. We don't think there's anything wrong with homosexuality or homogenderality.

I don't think many of us are convinced that homogenderality is real, but if someone is, or wants to claim to be, then that's up to them. We wouldn't try to convert them to be homosexual, we'd just be clear that they're not homosexual.

Whereas the other side keeps insisting that homosexuality is wrong, and try to convert homosexuals to being homogenderal, and has people of the opposite sex trying to intrude into homosexual spaces.

It is simply a model that pupils can access. These lessons are intended to teach tolerance for others. Some people agree with it and others do not. Which definition of homosexuality is fact and which a lie.? Or is it just that it can be defined in Different ways that people disagree over?

Really? Lesbians being 'taught' that sexual orientations are now based on 'gender' and not sex and peer groups taking those learnings to heart are just what?

just that it can be defined in Different ways that people disagree over?

And that lesbians saying please stop redefining us as it is homophobic are what?

To be denigrated as more 'conspiracy theorist' and offensive and intolerant?

I keep saying this, but you certainly do not come across as having any depth of knowledge about this at all. You not seem to have simply fallen into defending the material you teach as having no power at all to shape it to be better understood by your students.

So do your female students believe lesbians have a penis ?

Hasn't come up and not something I would proactively raise

Would you correct them if you could?

As I've stated previously this would be personal preference.

Do you worry about sexual coercion of young lesbians?

We advise all pupils about consent coercion etc to the extent we are able. There is very limited time to discuss these issues with all other areas we are expected to cover in school these days. Generally I acknowledge that anyone can be exploited but girls are at higher risk.

What would you tell the girls mentioned on here that have been told they are transphobic for not including wonen with penises in their dating pool.

As I've stated previously this would be personal preference.

That is

You seem to have simply fallen into defending the material you teach as having no power at all to shape it to be better understood by your students.

that 'not' was a stray.

You can say it here . Now.

I'm.not your student. No one knows who you are.

"I keep saying this, but you certainly do not come across as having any depth of knowledge about this at all. You not seem to have simply fallen into defending the material you teach as having no power at all to shape it to be better understood by your students."

And yet I have been accused by many of bring a trans activist regardless, because that is what many posters on here believe is shaping policy in schools. Clearly I'm not and neither are my colleagues....

What would you tell the girls mentioned on here that have been told they are transphobic for not including wonen with penises in their dating pool.

As I've stated previously this would be personal preference.

And you are here telling parents and lesbians off on this thread.

We are telling you what is happening and you seem to be denying that it happens, or you seem to be unable to give a straight answer, or you seem to be unable to see that teaching definitions that are about 'same gender' instead of 'same sex' is harmful. Particularly when given a direct example of the consequences of that.

You are still telling parents that they are 'offensive' and 'conspiracy theorists'.

And then you post this.

And yet I have been accused by many of bring a trans activist regardless, because that is what many posters on here believe is shaping policy in schools. Clearly I'm not and neither are my colleagues....

Did you even consider who the people were on this thread before you started accusing and denigrating people? If you are not an extreme trans activist, you have certainly used the very same tactics that they use.

And you have in no way acknowledged that you have levied accusations you have not been able to back up with evidence, and that you seem to think parents on this forum have little direct experience and a huge depth of knowledge on current policies and guidances.

You actually seem to think that parents on this thread would directly put their children into harmful situations through hate and lack of 'tolerance'.