Times on Sex Matters survey: 8 in 10 teachers say their secondary school has trans or non-binary pupils

[ResisterRex]

This is in today's paper and states again that Dept for Education is working on the guidelines.

8 in 10 teachers say their secondary school has trans pupils

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f2a3bcfe-b906-11ec-94e5-2197dead5942?shareToken=429e243ebe8065bf8d9d275c535357a9

"Asked what they thought had contributed to students’ altered identity, approximately 60 per cent of secondary school teachers cited there being trans or non-binary celebrities in the media. About 80 per cent said their school would refer to a pupil by their chosen name and pronouns if asked by a trans or non-binary student and their parent."

And

"A spokesman for the Department for Education said yesterday: “We recognise that gender identity can be a complex and sensitive topic for schools to navigate.

“We know many teachers are having these important conversations with their pupils, including through the relationship, sex and health education curriculum which is designed to foster respect for others in a way that respects everyone’s views.

“We will be working with the Equalities and Human Rights Commission as we consider our next steps for supporting schools in this area.”"

Think of the music scene we grew up with. So many great bands, so many different genres and tribes, venues, clubs, so many mainstream primetime TV shows showcasing hours of music across the spectrum every week. It gave teenagers a mostly harmless way to express themselves and interact with each other socially as they grew up. There's hardly any of that now. Teenagers who might have spent their time after school getting together in person, learning to play, setting up a band or supporting them or making and designing their own outfits now spend their time in their bedrooms on their own, consuming online gaming or streaming TV or falling down Tumblr rabbit holes for hours on end.

And this is what has come about with the manipulative approach of using section 28 as a comparator. It is a harmful and false comparison to make. And really does indicate a lack of deeper understanding of just what is happening here.

Indeed and for some people it certainly indicates an understanding of how to promote transgenderism to the public. It was a specific tactic asserted in the Denton report.

Align with gay rights, in order to appropriate their acceptance by the public, based on the understanding that non-acceptance can constitute homophobia.

Therefore disagreement with, and non acceptance of, gender ideology, constitutes 'transphobia.'

Even posters on this thread are feeling uncomfortable with disclosing a child's 'trans status'. As if it constitutes anything other than a real problem for that child's mental and physical health!

They have been led to believe that it involves the same sort of things as being LGB, even using terms like 'coming out.' And assuming, or say they are assuming, that parents who disagree with it are inherently wrong.

They are nothing of the sort.

Children showing up at gender clinics are overwhelming female, and there are a disproportionate number of autistic children.

It's nothing like having a sexual orientation.

Section 28 wrongly prevented schools from teaching the indisputable fact that some people are exclusively same-sex attracted.

Actually, genderologists do dispute that, and some would oppose that being taught.

@NecessaryScene

Section 28 wrongly prevented schools from teaching the indisputable fact that some people are exclusively same-sex attracted.

Actually, genderologists do dispute that, and some would oppose that being taught.

Well quite. The absolute bloody gall of appropriating section 28 to promote transgenderism, when they don't even believe in homosexuality!

Appropriate LGB rights, appropriate the means by which people were against them, all in order to promote promote an ideology that actively undermines them!

You couldn't make it up.

If a student is toying around with being non-binary and wants their friends to call them a particular name, I have no issue as a teacher. If they want me to call them by that name when I take the register and ask other students to do the same, I need parental permission so long as they are under 16. I think that's a reasonable middle ground.

‘Actually, genderologists do dispute that, and some would oppose that being taught.’

Yes, they would.

Exactly who benefits from telling children and teens that have families who love and support them that many families don’t and that their families may abuse them or worse if they know?

Even aside from the direct potential issues in that particular relationship, what about the secondary effect of general loss of trust between parents and teachers?

Many parents are increasingly under the impression that teachers are trying to actively conceal stuff from them, and cannot be trusted, due to hearing the sort of sentiments GrammarTeacher is expressing.

This is getting to be quite a political issue in the US already - something Republicans are beginning to leverage. In the UK our politics is primarily addressing gender ideology more from a women's rights view, but I think education concerns will increasingly be part of it.

Relevant cartoon from yesterday by Tatsuya Ishida attached.

"And really does indicate a lack of deeper understanding of just what is happening here."

People are quite wrong to say activist teachers are promoting transgenderism. Schools are generally promoting inclusion and tolerance of other's differences. The average classroom teacher is not promoting or pushing any specific lifestyle or life choices but truing to raisin awareness of these issues, particularly in response to bullying incidents.

Most counselling etc are pastoral teams a d safeguarding trans are highly trained, involved in multi agency discussions and have to read guidance reports on the issues etc.

It is disturbing on here to see posters on this thread describing schools are cults apparently full of activists, manipulating mentally ill teenage girls, whilst apparently concealing this from their parents.

Section 28 banned discussions of homosexuality which was enormously harmful to gay people and allowed homophobic attitudes to flourish. Even if you believes y pupils identifying as trans are in some sort of mental health crisis and will change their minds in the future the fact remains that some pupils may be trans and we should not demonise their choices, or ignore it like some dirty little secret.

You might have noticed that schools are severely under resourced and under funded and for most pupils mental health support by outside agencies is almost non existent for most. The conspiracy theories posted on this thread are absurd and offensive.

Many parents are increasingly under the impression that teachers are trying to actively conceal stuff from them, and cannot be trusted, due to hearing the sort of sentiments GrammarTeacher is expressing.

This.

Beyond the whole affirming my daughter as a boy behind our backs (and against clinical advice), the one thing that has struck me the most is the amount of lying that staff have done about my husband and myself. It brings a whole new level of distrust to the table. We discovered all sorts of false accusations against us from breaching our daughter’s privacy to read her school emails (untrue) to a rather wild claim which implied I was involved in an egg pelting incident (which I don’t believe happened anyway). This ideology makes people quite bonkers.

One of the things I recommend parents who find themselves tangled up with an activist school is to file a SAR for your data. You need your child’s permission after a certain age (12 in Scotland, can’t remember if that is U.K. wide) as the school is likely to say your child’s data is too intertwined with yours for them to send you anything, but if they agree, I think it’s essential.

‘It is disturbing on here to see posters on this thread describing schools are cults apparently full of activists, manipulating mentally ill teenage girls, whilst apparently concealing this from their parents.’

Then stop?

‘ We discovered all sorts of false accusations against us from breaching our daughter’s privacy to read her school emails (untrue) to a rather wild claim which implied I was involved in an egg pelting incident (which I don’t believe happened anyway). This ideology makes people quite bonkers.’

How old is your daughter? If she is under 16 why wouldn’t you check her school emails? These are the things people are talking about. Students have been given access to school social networks (email) and (surely) erroneously led to believe those communications can be kept secret from parents. Why should they be secret?

Even if you believes y pupils identifying as trans are in some sort of mental health crisis and will change their minds in the future the fact remains that some pupils may be trans and we should not demonise their choices, or ignore it like some dirty little secret.

You seem to be making a distinction here between children who 'identify as trans' and children who 'are trans'. Can you expand on what you believe to be the difference between these two groups?

Nobody is suggesting that we should 'ignore it like some dirty little secret'. What people are saying on this thread is that it's the school that treats it like some 'dirty little secret' that the parents shouldn't know about. The parents would actually like openness and for this to be discussed and shared with them if their child has confided in a teacher.

And if you can’t read them because “privacy” (when you’re trying to keep your child safe), they shouldn’t be giving the child an email account. It’s outrageous.

Then stop?

Not going to happen unless this forum is shut down though is it? Far too many posters are too far down the rabbit hole, hysterically parroting this rubbish who need to get a grip.

Why would you want a forum host to many people and parents with in depth knowledge of safguarding shut down. 🤔

‘Not going to happen unless this forum is shut down though is it? Far too many posters are too far down the rabbit hole, hysterically parroting this rubbish who need to get a grip.’

So are the parents here lying? Are the policies we’ve all seen from schools that defend these practices invented? Are the posters saying “Yes, I would keep this secret from parents” lying?

@walksen

Then stop?

Not going to happen unless this forum is shut down though is it? Far too many posters are too far down the rabbit hole, hysterically parroting this rubbish who need to get a grip.

You think that people here are 'parroting rubbish' about things that they have experienced?

Schools need to stop teaching children that they can change sex and socially transitioning them behind their parents' backs.

MN will get shut down for too many people saying “massive salad” before it gets shut down because of women exercising their Article 10 rights under the ECHR.

The average classroom teacher is not promoting or pushing any specific lifestyle or life choices but truing to raisin awareness of these issues, particularly in response to bullying incidents.

So a "not all teachers are like this" plea? It's utterly clear some are though, and no-one seems to be holding them to account within the system itself.

When those doing it are confronted they just seem to double down, with a sort of Kafka trap logic: "if the parents are objecting to what we're doing, it just proves how wrong they are and how right we are".

So how about addressing the points of the people here who have seen this behaviour first-hand? How are you going to address their concerns. Just say they're reciting "conspiracy theories"? I don't think that's going to make this go away...

@walksen Schools are teaching children that everyone has a gender identity, and this if this doesn't 'match' your sex (ie stereotypes) then you may be trans or non binary. And schools such as Grammarteacher's and rogdmum's daughter's are hiding important information about children from their parents. It isn't a conspiracy theory it's what is happening, as admitted to on this thread.

tabby she was 15 at the time. The context for the accusation was because the school’s LGBT club was planning on running two sessions to show the full Elliot Page/Oprah interview where Elliot describes having a double mastectomy as life saving, followed by discussion. I had complained about the messages being given and said there was no balance- where were the stories about detransitioners like Keira Bell etc. I hadn’t even asked that the session be pulled, just asked for balance!

They did then change the session to show excerpts of the Oprah interview and excepts from an interview with Keira. I got an email from the school saying the club strives to be informed etc.

Via the SAR, I discovered that my reward for having the temerity to complain was to make the accusation (the the Head, not even to me!) that I was accessing my daughter’s email account to read the school bulletin. Which was nonsensical, not least because I was reading the bulletin by logging into the school’s parent website where the bulletin is displayed for all to read, in the same way that, I would imagine, the vast majority of parents do.

Mindblowing. But this is what some parents are up against in an activist school’s attempts to keep secrets.

Rogdmum: That is absolute DARVO. They have no right to send your daughter ‘secret bulletins’. Unless you signed something to the contrary, why did they think you have no right to access your child’s school email account? Are they mad?

Parents have been sidelined by some schools or rather those who are in the schools activity promoting this agenda. Its been so easy for them to do this under "safeguarding" guise. Safeguarding is there to protect children and young people this harmful agenda and propaganda has done the opposte. It is appalling and the problem is the allegation of being phobic is trotted out all the time - we are getting the point now where people are realising it isn't the minority who object is the majority who are have been silenced. I am disappointing that this vocal group of individuals have been able to infiltrate mainstream thought - they are the ones that children and young people need to be safeguarded against

‘I am disappointing that this vocal group of individuals have been able to infiltrate mainstream thought - they are the ones that children and young people need to be safeguarded against’

Yes. Especially the ones who think they’re on some crusade to save kids from their parents. Dangerous people.

@walksen "Schools are teaching children that everyone has a gender identity, and this if this doesn't 'match' your sex (ie stereotypes) then you may be trans or non binary."

Were you in that lesson, or seen the PowerPoint for home learning?

I don't recognise that from any lessons I've taught on the issue or training I've been to. We may talk about public figures who are trans etc but never make any personal comments or insinuations such as the one you describe. If I ever told a pupil they might be trans i'd likely lose my job.