Angela Raynor on GMB

[Triotriotrio]

"I don't think it helps for politicians to define this". I mean, wft does she think their job is?

DFOD

@Wimbunds that would have annoyed me too.

How can people not see that TWATW, i.e. men and the only way to be a woman is to be a woman.

it's whether you believe in equality, safety and dignity for everybody regardless of sex or gender identity.'

Where's Kemi Badenoch when you need her:

"How are you defining 'gender identity'...?"

She is an utter idiot. We wont forget the women and men that did this.

"Even though I am a Tory I can see that it is not healthy for any party to be in power indefinitely. Every government needs a decent, effective opposition to hold them to account. That is where compromise comes from and that is a good thing."

Hear. Hear.

The truth is, though, that political parties change. The LibDems have no real echo of either the Liberal Party or the SDP anymore. And Labour is nothing like it was in the 90s, which was nothing like it was in the 80s, and so on, right back to the 1920s when one of their election proposals was no mandatory vaccinations.

It's likewise with the Conservatives. If you resurrected a 1950s Tory councillor, he'd be flabbergasted by modern Conservative councillors, thinking them, at best, Liberals or even Labour.

My feeling with Labour is that the problem goes back to Ed Balls, and his party associate membership idea (or whatever it was called), where for something daft like £3, you had a vote in the leadership election.

He basically allowed the nutty "hard-left" (though this term isn't appropriate really; they have more in common with the European authoritarian hard-right than the Chartist~Methodist~Marxist English left) vanguard to penetrate the Labour party, and they had been waiting for the opportunity for years. As soon as they climbed inside Ball's Trojan Horse, they stormed the barricades, and we ended up with a bunch of ideological hardliners causing havoc.

I don't even think Corbyn is to blame for any of it. However radical people assume Corbyn to be, he's nowhere near some of these people. He may have made some daft moves in his time, but he does think about issues carefully.

The other thing I'll mention, though this could just be my particular perspective, is that Labour lost an important reminder of its ethos and soul when Bob Crow died.

wimbunds Your post is naive. It is not possible for anyone with a penis to share a ward, a prison cell and/or a refuge with a woman and know she is safe from harm. It is subjecting her to a high degree of risk, so where is her dignity, safety and equality?

Answer that for me please.

No debate is over.
You'd better have a solid argument if you're going to convince anyone outside the already converted. This isn't coming off social media.
Most people who aren't aware of this issue must be wondering why Angela and Keir are saying it's hard to define a woman.

Why have the politicians been captured by this rubbish?

It puzzles me.

Quite frankly the mental gymnastics required whenever this subject is discussed by labour is exhausting.

@Swayingpalmtrees

wimbunds Your post is naive. It is not possible for anyone with a penis to share a ward, a prison cell and/or a refuge with a woman and know she is safe from harm. It is subjecting her to a high degree of risk, so where is her dignity, safety and equality?

Answer that for me please.

I agree with you! My local Labour councillor disagrees.

Fortunately for us it is obvious to even the disinterested majority that they are struggling with this issue, most people could not care less about it, and are living their best/not so best lives. If a man wants to be the Prime Minister of this country I would suggest most people would want him to at least know what a woman is!
It does not bode well for such a PM to be tackling the monumental tasks of social care/NHS/Economy/World War 3 does it.... Anyone could work that out after listening to KS for 20 seconds or so. No gender politics needed to work out he simply isn't up to the job if such a simple task evades him.

I agree with you! My local Labour councillor disagrees

How does your Labour councillor propose to keep such women safe? Have you bothered to ask, given you are on speaking terms wimbund It is all very well for people to screech for dignity and equality but at what cost to the truly vulnerable I ask?

Do they not count?
They can be raped at will so we can keep a minority of screechers happy?

"Of course we want to protect women's safe spaces. Nobody wants to be running into those"
Apart from that man who raped a woman on a woman's only ward. And she was disbelieved because of the same mental gymnastics- only women in this ward so it couldn't have happened. A year later it admitted she was raped. A YEAR LATER.

Or that bloke who runs Edinburgh Rape Crisis clinic who said victims need to "reframe their trauma ".

Despicable shits.

Or that bloke who runs Edinburgh Rape Crisis clinic who said victims need to "reframe their trauma"

I am assuming he has now been sacked, and apologies made to the victims?

'No-one wants to be running into those...'

This is exactly what they want. It's just that AR thinks they're women as soon as they say they are so it's fine.

@viques

Degrading! I’ll tell you what is degrading Angela, it is being raped on a hospital ward by another patient and then having the rape denied by the hospital for over a year because according to them there was no man on the ward. That is degrading. As is having police officers take photographs of your dead body, as is being told you can’t choose to be counselled by a woman, as is seeing awards designed to celebrate womens enterprise and hard work being accepted by men . As are all the other slights and indignities that women are expected to suck up so we don’t hurt mens pockets and mens feelings.

Now they are degrading.

And while we are handing out definitions, here’s one for you : sticking up for the 50% of the electorate who voted you into your current position, championing their rights to clear and unambiguous language about their sex, to safe spaces in schools, hospitals, prisons, refuges and hostels, to equality on the sports field, to equal pay, to equal pension rights, to a police force that tackles domestic and other violence against women, to adequate maternity services, that is called doing your fucking job.

Indeed.

It would be very convenient for us to 'reframe our trauma', given the embarrassment of the rape prosecution statistics currently.

And we can expect it to get even worse under Labour as we won't even be included in the statistics as we will cease to exist. Thats one way of dealing with the hot potato that is the appalling lack of convictions for rape in this country.

@Swayingpalmtrees , nope. Still there as far as I know.

And he is still there......that says it all.

We need wholesale change, the tinkering around the edges trying to convince an indifferent political class is getting us nowhere.

@CarbonelCat

All parents need to understand the really important point, that if no one can define what a woman is, if a woman can have a penis, if a woman is a thing you just say you are, then when you send your 11 yr old female child on a camping trip with school, and you want to know that should she need assistance around periods for eg, there is a woman teacher on hand, you need to know that that woman you sent her with may be a man, and politicians are ok with that. You are not allowed to question that, define or articulate your issue with that, and neither is your daughter.

Wtaf.

This sort of safe guiding issue is the main reason the whole situation sickens me. I don't want a fully intact man, saying he is a woman strolling around in the loo/changing room/whatever near my children, me or anyone else for that matter. I don't understand why some people won't grasp this as just basic common sense.

There is a reason we have such places split on sex and it's not generally for the safety of men.

She thinks the Be Kind/No debate thing still works. She's a clown. They all are. Apart from Rosie Duffield.
I'm a Labour voter since 1987. Or was until Corbyn. Nothing has changed

@Artichokeleaves

The whole 'young person' thing is getting like frantic cries of 'kittens! kittens!'

No, sorry Angela. Cute marketing imagery still isn't making the problems go away. We've had that t shirt for years, it's full of holes now. And we need to talk about you using a very intentionally vague version of the issues of young people in this way to further your agenda, when you've got a minute.

Well a trans young person that Angela has supported very publicly was outed as a bit of a sexual predator weren't they?

@viques

Degrading! I’ll tell you what is degrading Angela, it is being raped on a hospital ward by another patient and then having the rape denied by the hospital for over a year because according to them there was no man on the ward. That is degrading. As is having police officers take photographs of your dead body, as is being told you can’t choose to be counselled by a woman, as is seeing awards designed to celebrate womens enterprise and hard work being accepted by men . As are all the other slights and indignities that women are expected to suck up so we don’t hurt mens pockets and mens feelings.

Now they are degrading.

And while we are handing out definitions, here’s one for you : sticking up for the 50% of the electorate who voted you into your current position, championing their rights to clear and unambiguous language about their sex, to safe spaces in schools, hospitals, prisons, refuges and hostels, to equality on the sports field, to equal pay, to equal pension rights, to a police force that tackles domestic and other violence against women, to adequate maternity services, that is called doing your fucking job.

You put it so well Viques. Thank you.

Rayner used to retweet Mermaids stuff quite regularly, didn't she? I think she eventually realised that didn't make her look good, but she still stands with the people who want to give PBs, cross sex hormones and surgeries to distressed children.

whether you believe in equality, safety and dignity for everybody regardless of sex or gender identity.'

Aye, 'fuck women's equality, safety and dignity' is effectively what the subtext of that is.

'get over it'.
'no, thank you.'

We never got to hear how the Labour councillor intended to keep women safe from harm for those with penises in hospitals/prison cells and refuges.

They strangely didn't return to answer why the dignity, equality and safety did not extend to actual women and girls domestic and those that are truly vulnerable.