Angela Raynor on GMB

[Triotriotrio]

"I don't think it helps for politicians to define this". I mean, wft does she think their job is?

DFOD

If Richard Medley can get you on the ropes and make you seem inadequate then the time to re- think your party strategy has come.

'I include my dd in all this as she needs definitions and clarity as I do.'

Of course she does. Rayner wants to sacrifice clarity and honesty to the needs of a few people, whose needs are not best served anyway by what they propose.

It's perfectly okay for me to point out, in certain circumstances, that a person is male. If I can't do this, how can I protect my children and how can they protect themselves?

OJ calling it 'prurient' to talk about genitals. Only the genitals of trans people, though. I don't think he usually has such a problem talking about other genitals.

They can get out of here with their 19th century ideas of what we are allowed to say. Body parts aren't dirty.

They are looking at the US and thinking it's been quite the useful strategy to pretend to be offended by the mention of a penis. That way you can skirt the issues. Very clever.

But no.

Thing is - if Labour can’t get the simple things right, how can they be trusted to deal with stuff that is actually complex? If Labour don’t even know what a woman is how can they deal with the economy, the NHS, Brexit etc, etc, etc…?

@viques

Degrading! I’ll tell you what is degrading Angela, it is being raped on a hospital ward by another patient and then having the rape denied by the hospital for over a year because according to them there was no man on the ward. That is degrading. As is having police officers take photographs of your dead body, as is being told you can’t choose to be counselled by a woman, as is seeing awards designed to celebrate womens enterprise and hard work being accepted by men . As are all the other slights and indignities that women are expected to suck up so we don’t hurt mens pockets and mens feelings.

Now they are degrading.

And while we are handing out definitions, here’s one for you : sticking up for the 50% of the electorate who voted you into your current position, championing their rights to clear and unambiguous language about their sex, to safe spaces in schools, hospitals, prisons, refuges and hostels, to equality on the sports field, to equal pay, to equal pension rights, to a police force that tackles domestic and other violence against women, to adequate maternity services, that is called doing your fucking job.

Nicely put, thank you.

We do have teens in our lives that are transitioning at the moment, the young people Angela refers to - but she does not speak for them either, as they do not want women's rights stripped out in their name, they don't recognise the clamouring and drama at all, they are quietly getting on with their lives. They may change again before they reach adulthood who knows, but they do not want this.

So who wants this I ask? And what is the real motivation of damaging women in this way?

Labour aren't going to back down. There are too many who want to see women under a bus driven by pretend women, who are called women.

The squashed women are not real woman, we are cis or AFAB or body parts. We don't count.

This is a very disturbing situation. Cards on the table, I am a Tory but please hear me out. Labour has been stolen, thieved by a bunch of hand wringing urban elitists who have no bloody idea about life outside ther extremely rarified bubble. They have their little meetings where they congratulate themselves on their 'inclusivity' and actually think they have the moral highground. They do not. Almost no politicians do. They are (the vast majority from all parties) venal, arrogant, dishonest and greedy. That greed can be for money, power, an ideology, or influence.
Why does this matter? Even though I am a Tory I can see that it is not healthy for any party to be in power indefinitely. Every government needs a decent, effective opposition to hold them to account. That is where compromise comes from and that is a good thing.
I will end this by quoting two people, first my dearest and best friend, a lifelong, dyed in the wool Labour voter: "Anybody who wants to be a politician should be automatically barred from being a politician."
And my late grandfather, a crossbencher peer: "With Tories it's sex and money that causes the trouble. With Labour it's ideology and money. The Liberals? Pointless". He wasn't wrong.
One final thing. If you want to see the reality of a one party system without a decent opposition look at Scotland. Not the media flummery, the ill informed comment etc, the reality of actually living here. It's not good. Everything people dislike about life Down South only more so, particularly the sex/gender question.

How can you have policies and laws which affect women if you can't define a woman.
I don't want to hear Angela and the likes trying to be serious about issues like violence towards women if that's on shifting sand.
There may be overlaps between sex and gender but they're not impossible to define.

Guido has picked up the Sky interview. Complete with a trans flag and 🍆

order-order.com/2022/03/29/rayner-asking-if-women-can-have-penises-really-debases-the-issue/?fbclid=IwAR3Dh0B6RiPL1EgavWf0db9qrIr5lpWi7CyjDycxZSX0oa8d8aLzYPkzH5Q

Where's the GMB video? I'm not sure I'd agree Madeley is somehow an easy interviewer:

And if indeed Partridge was based on him, then IIRC many a guest came undone up against him, too.

@tabbycatstripy

'People who are not qualified to discuss some of these issues.'

This is a car crash. She means women. Women are not qualified to discuss being women.

She can go away now.

Holy fuck, Angela.

'I'm not a vet, but I know what a dog is'.

Another blue tick saying it's 'reductive' for Angela Rayner to be asked on TV whether it's okay to ask men whether they are pregnant.

In what way is that 'reductive'? It's either fine, or it's in some way not fine. If all men are going to be asked for the rest of time whether they have conceived a child inside their non-existent wombs, that has implications. It has implications for the time of medical staff, who have to ask the question and record the answer. It has implications for the patients, who might not understand why they are being asked, and might be distressed by the idea that they could be pregnant. It has implications because health services are choosing to ask this question of everyone - and presumably, also, other questions they could easily ask only of people of one sex, if they actually recorded sex, which would be, you know, the obvious and sensible thing to do, because all bodies are either male or female, and male people can't conceive a child.

On GMB she said ….

There seems to be a huge debate about this and that’s quite damaging

The debate shouldn’t be conducted on social media.

It doesn’t help us to have a debate at that sort of level….

Basically women should put up and shut up.

Labour are not going to back down

Well, then they will never ever win an election again. It is as simple as that. I am hardly going to vote to be erased am I?
What woman anywhere in their right mind is going to vote for erasure?

She thinks she's only accountable to people with power. She likes talking to union leaders and charity bosses and maybe some activists, but not female citizens of the country she wants to lead.

"I think we need to be taking it away from social media, taking it away from commentators..."

I BET you do Angela. Bring back the halcyon days of #NoDebate, eh? When you could come out with batshit soundbites and look like the good guys, not be ridiculed as utter dimwits.

I'm a floating voter and would love the Conservatives to have some competition from people in the real world rather than a captured bubble.

I agree with Andouillette that we need an effective opposition.

It is unhealthy in a democracy to lack an effective opposition and to have the opposition hobbled by forced adherence to a belief system that even its own members seem secretly not to agree with. They can't be a good opposition if they can't even debate within the party.

Whoever is in power, we always need a robust opposition. One that's on the ball, not the back foot.

Andouillette

I will end this by quoting two people, first my dearest and best friend, a lifelong, dyed in the wool Labour voter: "Anybody who wants to be a politician should be automatically barred from being a politician."

It's funny you say that, my dad says exactly the same thing and now I completely agree with him.

As for none of Labour being able to define a woman, I believe that it will stop them from being elected in the short term at least. Not because people will care specifically about women's rights or even know what's going on with all the gender stuff, more because it makes them look like stupid liars (which they are).
EVERYONE knows what it means to be a woman or man, literally everyone, and if they won't say it they are obviously lying which isn't a good look for a politician.

@DomesticatedZombie

Because frankly I'll stick with the devil I know, with the insane hair and no morals.

I'd rather an honest crook than a crook that tells me he's morally superior while stealing my rights, frankly.

TBH I have been struggling to articulate my thoughts about it, and you have just done so.

I abandoned Labour due to the stranglehold Momentum had on it, and over my disgust at the treatment they meted out to Ruth Smeeth, and other Jewish MPs. I had hopes for Sir K. I watched carefully and waited. I honestly cannot see myself ever voting for them again. They have lost me. They lost my rusted-on Labour until they die parents.

We need a strong and effective Opposition in a functioning democratic society. Labour have let us all down, no matter what stripe we are.

I’m a floating voter and feel so frustrated at where Labour is now compared to landslide years

They feel so out of touch, like an extension of a lobby group

I'm re-posting this here as i'm so cross about it! It's the response from a local Labour councillor to me talking about the importance of keeping single-sex spaces/services:

Thanks for your email.

My own views on this issue are based on numerous discussions with the women I know (including my wife and adult daughter) and their views around trans-women and equality. By far the majority of those views are that trans-women are women and should be treated as such.

I don't believe the discussion is about the feelings of men over those of women and children, it's whether you believe in equality, safety and dignity for everybody regardless of sex or gender identity.

More and more, Starmer and Rayner and the rest appear like people who have been pretending to be normal for a long time. Rayner knows far too much about this subject to pretend she is only just considering the issues. She actually believes it's disgusting and degrading for a person to be asked their natal sex by a medical professional in a hospital before they embark on a procedure.

'I don't believe the discussion is about the feelings of men over those of women and children, it's whether you believe in equality, safety and dignity for everybody regardless of sex or gender identity.'

Where is the dignity for women being forced to share a hospital ward with a male who says he's female, and then lied to by medical professionals saying there was never a male there?

@viques

Degrading! I’ll tell you what is degrading Angela, it is being raped on a hospital ward by another patient and then having the rape denied by the hospital for over a year because according to them there was no man on the ward. That is degrading. As is having police officers take photographs of your dead body, as is being told you can’t choose to be counselled by a woman, as is seeing awards designed to celebrate womens enterprise and hard work being accepted by men . As are all the other slights and indignities that women are expected to suck up so we don’t hurt mens pockets and mens feelings.

Now they are degrading.

And while we are handing out definitions, here’s one for you : sticking up for the 50% of the electorate who voted you into your current position, championing their rights to clear and unambiguous language about their sex, to safe spaces in schools, hospitals, prisons, refuges and hostels, to equality on the sports field, to equal pay, to equal pension rights, to a police force that tackles domestic and other violence against women, to adequate maternity services, that is called doing your fucking job.

Honestly I want to put this on a billboard outside fucking Westminster.