To wonder why an MP is lying about womens bathrooms?

[TeaKlaxon]

Lucy Allen has tweeted that the Barbican has mens bathrooms and gender neutral bathrooms, but no womens bathrooms.

Lots of twitter users told her that was wrong.

The Barbican itself told her it's wrong.

But the tweet remains. AIBU to think that if an MP gets something wrong, they should apologise and remove the lie? Or to think that this is deliberate misinformation to further the myth of women being 'erased'?

twitter.com/lucyallan/status/1507076111871713282?s=20&t=D_TGgQBlnKkKZ6NEIjnzsw

All very interesting.

I think the argument that the MP is absolved by just repeating what she was told is dangerous. And @Helleofabore's rather artful interpretation of the tweet is ... artful! (And it being an AIBU vote, most voters think so too.)

And they're bogs.

And the Barbican has plenty of ladies' bogs, or at least is no worse provisioned than other theatres, but that's a long-standing complaint from long before this battle got going!

Can you let us know the mix of toilets by floor in the Barbican? I can't get there until next week so I'm happy to conduct a review then.

It sounds like you can go to the Barbican and see gender neutral and male toilets, and not see (with any ease) the female toilets. Just because they might have one hidden away somewhere doesn't mean the person who spoke to Lucy Allen is lying. The theatre should make a toilet for female people easily and visibly available.

@Helleofabore

A woman explaining to an usher why she would not use the gender neutral toilets is making a political point. Why in the hell does she thinks that usher gives a crap why she won't use the gender neutral toilet.

The usher is hired to deliver a high standard of customer service to everyone.

At what point did you decide the usher should be able to laugh at a patron and not give the answer to her question? Because she left the venue still believing there was no female single sex toilet after asking specifically for it.

The usher should be feeding the information back to management that women don't want to use gender neutral toilets and maybe some more/better signage is needed.

If she left the building thinking there was no womens toilets then she's an idiot.

Sorry, but have you ever been to the Barbican?

The main concourse area is filled to the brim with signage. It can be a complex place to get around, and a bit confusing, but as a result there are signs almost everywhere telling you what is on each floor, how to get to the various parts of the centre etc.

Anyone who can read and still thinks there is no womens toilets there is an idiot.

The woman asked where the woman's toilets were as opposed to the gender neutral ones to avoid being directed to the gender neutral/mixed sex ones and you think it appropriate that instead of just directing her to the toilets she asked about the usher laughed in her face?

All toilets whatever their designation should be clearly an unambiguously signposted no-one should have to spend their time playing hunt the toilet I need to use.

OP the more you talk about women the more your disdain is evident.

@tabbycatstripy

It sounds like you can go to the Barbican and see gender neutral and male toilets, and not see (with any ease) the female toilets. Just because they might have one hidden away somewhere doesn't mean the person who spoke to Lucy Allen is lying. The theatre should make a toilet for female people easily and visibly available.

They are easy to find, and you've had several posters, myself included, who have told you there are lots of women's toilets in really obvious and well sign posted places throughout the building.

Have you been to the Barbican?

@Itwasntmeright

Lucy Allen is odious, but on this occasion she isn’t lying, somebody has told her that. I have no idea about the toilet provision in said venue as I have never been.

@TeaKlaxon As for butch lesbians being challenged in women’s toilets: this is utter utter bullshit. I am as butch as they come, I get called Sir all the time, and so do a number of women I know. Not one of us has ever been challenged in the women’s toilets. I’ve never even heard of this happening, except for from trans activists who aren’t butch lesbians. Keep your filthy lesbophobic bullshit lies to yourself.

So Eloise Stonborough is lying?

Why should I believe you and not her?

Anyone who can read and still thinks there is no womens toilets there is an idiot.

Way to go to dismiss and belittle those with sight impediments who may have to ask where facilities are and run the risk of being laughed at, what an absolute peach you are.

@heathspeedwell

OP the more you talk about women the more your disdain is evident.

Maybe I'm just another self-hating handmaiden (or is it an Aunt Lydia?) the gender crits are so fond of referring to?

Feminists: "Listen to women"

Gender Criticals: "No, not those ones!"

This is the tweet we are talking about.

I received this message today: “I was at the Barbican yesterday where there were male toilets, disabled toilets, and gender neutral toilets. I asked where were the female toilets as I am not gender neutral I am a woman and they laughed in my face. Women are being erased.”

So, there are many reasons a woman might not have seen the 'ample signage' in the venue.

She might be visually impaired in those light conditions. There might have been many people around and she could not see the signage enough to make out where to go.

She also might be in an unknown venue where the signage is, in fact, inadequate.

There are many very real reasons she did not see the signs.

Again, it is YOU who are making many negative assumptions about this woman based on your own seemingly deep prejudices.

You could believe both and recognise that individual experiences differ ?

If complaining to an MP that one of the several womens toilets in the building weren't right next to the mens and gender neutral toilets doesn't make someone a crank, I don't know what does.

Again that's your twisted perspective. She's complaining that the women's toilets that were right there next to the men's have now been given over to the demands of men and women now have to go to a different flloor. Why have women been shunted over? It's a men's issue and yet it's women who are having to be inconvenienced to solve it and women who are being pilloried for objecting.

@VestofAbsurdity

Anyone who can read and still thinks there is no womens toilets there is an idiot.

Way to go to dismiss and belittle those with sight impediments who may have to ask where facilities are and run the risk of being laughed at, what an absolute peach you are.

Did you miss the bit where I said: "Anyone who can read and still thinks there is no womens toilets'?

@TeaKlaxon her concerns about being forced to use same sex toilets because nobody will tell her where the ladies toilets are!

No she couldn't find the toilets - and you explicitly told me earlier that there aren't signposts for the womens toilets outside the other toilets.

The toilets @Clymene shares are the main toilets - so the womens should be there. And, if they're not, it should be obvious where they are - which it isn't.

As I said to you, this could be one of many examples the constituent gave to her MP. I doubt an MP would take the time to worry if it was a random one off. It's not.

A toilet that biological women are expected to share with transwomen is not a womens toilet because it's one men go in too.

A womens toilet would be one where Muslim women could safely enter as transwomen are barred, along with other women from faiths or with experiences & beliefs that means sharing with men is not possible no matter what those men think.

If she left the building thinking there was no womens toilets then she's an idiot.

And if she could not see the signage for whatever reason, and she actually went to the trouble of asking for assistance and was laughed at, there is the issue.

I can see you are only kind to whoever fits your political profile.

And the ableism that is coming through on your threads is very offensive.

@VestofAbsurdity

The woman asked where the woman's toilets were as opposed to the gender neutral ones to avoid being directed to the gender neutral/mixed sex ones and you think it appropriate that instead of just directing her to the toilets she asked about the usher laughed in her face?

All toilets whatever their designation should be clearly an unambiguously signposted no-one should have to spend their time playing hunt the toilet I need to use.

No one does have to play hunt the toilet.

Toilets in the Barbican are extremely easy to find.

As pp have said, during show times, the womens can have queues but they are easy to find. And in my experience, even with the queues, there are enough womens toilets in the complex that if you don't want to queue, you can just make your way to the womens toilets that are a bit further from the auditorium and there are often no queues.

@Helleofabore

If she left the building thinking there was no womens toilets then she's an idiot.

And if she could not see the signage for whatever reason, and she actually went to the trouble of asking for assistance and was laughed at, there is the issue.

I can see you are only kind to whoever fits your political profile.

And the ableism that is coming through on your threads is very offensive.

On my threads? Plural?

Which other threads do you have in mind?

I do apologise, an extra 's' snuck in. This thread is the one I am discussing. Do you have more than one that you started?

Toilets in the Barbican are extremely easy to find.

That's not the experience of everyone in this thread.
Maybe it's because you don't mind the gender neutral ones that make it easy?

Most women have enough empathy to understand why women want single sex toilets, and also why women might need to be able to find those toilets quickly.

If a woman has to ask an usher where the toilets are then this suggests that the signs are not adequate, and quite possibly the toilet provisions is also inadequate.

But for some reason, OP, you are just assuming that what this really means is that the woman can be written off as a 'crank' or a 'liar'.

@BringBackCoffeeCreams

If complaining to an MP that one of the several womens toilets in the building weren't right next to the mens and gender neutral toilets doesn't make someone a crank, I don't know what does.

Again that's your twisted perspective. She's complaining that the women's toilets that were right there next to the men's have now been given over to the demands of men and women now have to go to a different flloor. Why have women been shunted over? It's a men's issue and yet it's women who are having to be inconvenienced to solve it and women who are being pilloried for objecting.

So which is it?

She couldn't find the women's toilets?

She believed there weren't any women's toilets?

She knew there were women's toilets but is pissed off that gender neutral toilets even exist?

Well 1 can lead to 2 quite easily

@Clymene

There is nothing to indicate that women's toilets are harder to find.

Except this photo which clearly shows the women's toilets have been converted into gender neutral ones.

Exactly. Those are the 1st floor loos. Used to be Women's. When you go in, there's a long corridor with a mirror along the wall to your right. To your left are a number of fully enclosed cubicles (loo, handbasin, paper towels, sanitary bin, rubbish bin) These were the loos I'd normally use in the past. Certainly not going in there in the future if they're open to men. Very dodgy place to be especially during the day, when you'd often be the only person in there.