To wonder why an MP is lying about womens bathrooms?

[TeaKlaxon]

Lucy Allen has tweeted that the Barbican has mens bathrooms and gender neutral bathrooms, but no womens bathrooms.

Lots of twitter users told her that was wrong.

The Barbican itself told her it's wrong.

But the tweet remains. AIBU to think that if an MP gets something wrong, they should apologise and remove the lie? Or to think that this is deliberate misinformation to further the myth of women being 'erased'?

twitter.com/lucyallan/status/1507076111871713282?s=20&t=D_TGgQBlnKkKZ6NEIjnzsw

So no, this mysterious Barbican patron who thought the MP for Telford is their best chance of publicising their views was not just looking for the womens toilet. She was looking to make a point. And Lucy Allen was very happy to spread her misinformation.

Earlier you said Lucy Allen made the patron up which was why you wouldn't apologise for your own misinformation in your OP.

Have you considered that maybe the patron lives in Telford and was giving a number of examples of similar incidents and this happened to be the one that stood out?

Clear implication being that that was all there was.

That is an implication YOU are making.

All misinformation.

yes. yours

Do they mean lavatories?

Clear implication. There you go again. You doing an interpretive dance to rearrange words to say what you think they say doesn't make it true.

The tweet says there were gents and gender neutral toilets.

Clear implication being that that was all there was.

Because that's all they could find and they were laughed at when they asked for help!!!

@girlmom21

A woman explaining to an usher why she would not use the gender neutral toilets is making a political point. Why in the hell does she thinks that usher gives a crap why she won't use the gender neutral toilet.

Or maybe she's a victim of rape or sexual assault or is on her period or has 100 other reasons why she wants a single-sex space and if she doesn't speak up other women will suffer too.

If you really think this isn't about forcing women to share their spaces, why do you think they didn't change the mens toilets? Why don't they make the gender neutral toilets the ones that are isolated from all of the others. Why isn't it the womens that are in the most obvious spaces?

Read my post again.

I'm not saying she might not have good reasons why she wanted the women's loos.

I'm saying those reasons ('that she doesn't have a gender') are irrelevant to her ask of the usher. There is absolutely no reason she needed to explain that to them.

Except to make the point that she is 'gender critical' and disagrees with the concept of gender neutral toilets. So no, she is not some honest good faith actor here who couldn't just read the many signs in the building and find the toilet she was looking for.

So OP, you think it's fine for women to want to use women-only toilets, but we mustn't dare to talk about it.

That speaks volumes about your view of women.

There obviously are women's toilets. Quite a lot of them.

How many and where are they?

I mean you are the one up in arms about an MP reporting 'lies', so tell us the facts. Prove how she is wrong.

@BlaBlaSmthSmth

So what - you think the various lesbians who have told us about their experiences being challenged in womens bathrooms by people who think they are men or are trans are just lying?

So it's ok for you to use what someone has 'told you' and share that around as fact, but when someone else does it they're using Trump style tactics to spread misinformation 🤔

Aside from that butch women are still women and look like butch women not a male in a dress, if men weren't pushing to invade our spaces it wouldn't be an issue.

What do you get out of pushing women's boundaries OP? We have said no and that should've been the end of the discussion. Why keep pushing us instead of coming up with a positive solution for some males wanting separate spaces away from other males?

There is a big difference between lots of lesbians on the public record sharing their experiences that you are determined to ignore, and someone hiding behind 'some unnamed person told me X, so it's not my problem when X turns out to be a lie'.

Women bei g erased is not a myth.

@heathspeedwell

So OP, you think it's fine for women to want to use women-only toilets, but we mustn't dare to talk about it.

That speaks volumes about your view of women.

LOL - I'm saying the usher doesn't care why she needed to use women's bathrooms and the only reason to tell them is to make a point about gender neutral bathrooms.

So yes, someone who goes out of their way to take offence at the very existence of gender neutral spaces is a crank whose account cannot be trusted.

Do I believe that she was laughed at? No. Do I believe she couldn't easily have found the toilets she needed? No.

Why?

Because she sounds like a crank. Because she is implying something not true. And crucially, because its very easy to find womens toilets in the Barbican and its nonsense to claim otherwise.

@girlmom21

So no, this mysterious Barbican patron who thought the MP for Telford is their best chance of publicising their views was not just looking for the womens toilet. She was looking to make a point. And Lucy Allen was very happy to spread her misinformation.

Earlier you said Lucy Allen made the patron up which was why you wouldn't apologise for your own misinformation in your OP.

Have you considered that maybe the patron lives in Telford and was giving a number of examples of similar incidents and this happened to be the one that stood out?

I didn't say the patron was made up.

I said that people hiding behind 'someone told me X' don't get a get out of jail free card if X turns out to be a lie.

Is there really a 'big difference' though OP? Is there really? You are taking the word of other people and then reporting it as fact. Have you looked into these claims before you spread them around?
And what about the rest of my post? You ignored my questions about women's boundaries, are we entitled to assert our boundaries?

I'm saying those reasons ('that she doesn't have a gender') are irrelevant to her ask of the usher. There is absolutely no reason she needed to explain that to them.

Except she was honest about not wanting to use the gender neutral toilets.

Except to make the point that she is 'gender critical' and disagrees with the concept of gender neutral toilets. So no, she is not some honest good faith actor here who couldn't just read the many signs in the building and find the toilet she was looking for.

You have assumed that the person is 'gender critical'. Most every woman I know disagrees with the concept of not having female only toilets in places where more than one or two toilets are need. Most of those people have no idea about the label you are applying to them.

But they don't want to use gender neutral toilets and have their own valid and varied reasons for not wanting to.

It is YOU who are spreading your interpretation of the tweet.

That tweet again:

I received this message today: “I was at the Barbican yesterday where there were male toilets, disabled toilets, and gender neutral toilets. I asked where were the female toilets as I am not gender neutral I am a woman and they laughed in my face. Women are being erased.”

I'm saying those reasons ('that she doesn't have a gender') are irrelevant to her ask of the usher. There is absolutely no reason she needed to explain that to them.

I disagree. I think if we don't make our concerns known to the people who feed back to the people who make decisions, nothing will change.

The woman spoke to someone who she thinks could stand up and make her voice heard - and they laughed at her. Her reasons aren't irrelevant.

She's then spoken to someone else who can stand up for her - her MP - and now she's being called a liar.

Her reasons do matter because if we don't discuss our reasons we're accused of being 'hysterical' or transphobic or whatever.

So now women who want single sex toilets are 'cranks' who 'cannot be trusted' if they state a preference?

So stop lying.

@SalsaLove

Bathroom sounds nicer than toilet.

Loo is better. Calling loos/toilets ‘bathrooms’ is an American import we could do without, if only to avoid confusion. ,

I'm saying those reasons ('that she doesn't have a gender') are irrelevant to her ask of the usher. There is absolutely no reason she needed to explain that to them.

They are relevant if the usher directed her to the gender neutral toilets. Which, as they were the closest toilets, is the most likely explanation.

Except to make the point that she is 'gender critical' and disagrees with the concept of gender neutral toilets. So no, she is not some honest good faith actor here who couldn't just read the many signs in the building and find the toilet she was looking for.

That's your interpretation based on your own agenda of demonising a woman who wants to use the women's toilets which don't have men in them.

@BlaBlaSmthSmth

Is there really a 'big difference' though OP? Is there really? You are taking the word of other people and then reporting it as fact. Have you looked into these claims before you spread them around? And what about the rest of my post? You ignored my questions about women's boundaries, are we entitled to assert our boundaries?

There's definitely a big difference between a named person going on the record in the media about their experience, as in the case of Eloise Stonborough who was dismissed upthread on the one hand, and an unnamed 'someone told me X'.

A woman explaining to an usher why she would not use the gender neutral toilets is making a political point. Why in the hell does she thinks that usher gives a crap why she won't use the gender neutral toilet.

The usher is hired to deliver a high standard of customer service to everyone.

At what point did you decide the usher should be able to laugh at a patron and not give the answer to her question? Because she left the venue still believing there was no female single sex toilet after asking specifically for it.

The usher should be feeding the information back to management that women don't want to use gender neutral toilets and maybe some more/better signage is needed.

You seem averse to Kyi g but seem happy with the biggest lie of all that men can change sex and become a woman. And the follow on lie the people with a penis are perfectly entitle to be in women's toilets

@TeaKlaxon women want to use single sex spaces away from males, and we will keep talking about it and asking questions, that doesn't make us 'cranks' (wtf kind of pathetic shit is that😆)

@girlmom21

I'm saying those reasons ('that she doesn't have a gender') are irrelevant to her ask of the usher. There is absolutely no reason she needed to explain that to them.

I disagree. I think if we don't make our concerns known to the people who feed back to the people who make decisions, nothing will change.

The woman spoke to someone who she thinks could stand up and make her voice heard - and they laughed at her. Her reasons aren't irrelevant.

She's then spoken to someone else who can stand up for her - her MP - and now she's being called a liar.

Her reasons do matter because if we don't discuss our reasons we're accused of being 'hysterical' or transphobic or whatever.

What concerns?

There are womens toilets dotted throughout the Centre.

Her concern seems to be that she was unable to use the ample signage in the Barbican Centre to find them.

If complaining to an MP that one of the several womens toilets in the building weren't right next to the mens and gender neutral toilets doesn't make someone a crank, I don't know what does.

Lucy Allen is odious, but on this occasion she isn’t lying, somebody has told her that. I have no idea about the toilet provision in said venue as I have never been.

@TeaKlaxon As for butch lesbians being challenged in women’s toilets: this is utter utter bullshit. I am as butch as they come, I get called Sir all the time, and so do a number of women I know. Not one of us has ever been challenged in the women’s toilets. I’ve never even heard of this happening, except for from trans activists who aren’t butch lesbians. Keep your filthy lesbophobic bullshit lies to yourself.