To wonder why an MP is lying about womens bathrooms?

[TeaKlaxon]

Lucy Allen has tweeted that the Barbican has mens bathrooms and gender neutral bathrooms, but no womens bathrooms.

Lots of twitter users told her that was wrong.

The Barbican itself told her it's wrong.

But the tweet remains. AIBU to think that if an MP gets something wrong, they should apologise and remove the lie? Or to think that this is deliberate misinformation to further the myth of women being 'erased'?

twitter.com/lucyallan/status/1507076111871713282?s=20&t=D_TGgQBlnKkKZ6NEIjnzsw

Your problem is that those instances are true.

The most accessible women's loos have been rebranded. The ones nearest the main entrances, transport connections, on the ground floor. The women's loos no longer exist there. Women are being disadvantaged in droves in order to satisfy those who shout "anti trans" cobblers at every opportunity.

When women point out a blindingly obvious inequity it behoves you, organisations, everyone to stop and think past your own bias.

but not really anything to do with the OP, which is the blatant misinformation by Lucy Allen.

So where are the women's toilets? Are they beside all the others? Are they easy to find? How many are there?

@bellinisurge

I don't know what the third one is at the back but a gender neutral toilet is , by definition, not a sex-specific one. Why not change the men's to gender neutral if allegedly it's not an issue.

Sorry, it's my crappy photo. Zoomed in - it's the men's

@maddening

Quite frankly the toilet argument is the thin end of the wedge, you won't find TRAs like the op going gung ho into conversations about rape crisis and medicalisation of children under the gender ideology banner as it is not as easy to dismiss such concerns.

I agree it is not possible to police, and transsexuals have been using with no problems for years, but the trans train today is very different- eg you have grown men filming themselves walking in women's toilets dressed as a woman, by crossing the boundaries in such a manner you cause lines to be drawn.

No problems. Aye right.

Unless you are the 10 year old assaulted by the trans woman Katie Dolatowski.

www.scotsman.com/regions/edinburgh-fife-and-lothians/female-spaces-need-better-protection-after-trans-woman-sex-assault-girl-say-campaigners-140883

The OP is the one spreading misinformation, claiming the MP's tweet stated there were no womens toilets at the barbican. The tweet says nothing of the sort. The tweet says that the woman who asked about the women's toilets was laughed at by staff, doesn't say anything about whether there were or weren't women's toilets.

@AlisonDonut

There are women's toilets at the Barbican, and they are not hidden. In fact from memory there are women's toilets on pretty much every floor. Certainly that is the case in and around the main auditorium, which is the part of the Barbican I am most familiar with.

Have you popped there this morning to check?

I guess the issue is that they have changed some of the female toilets to mixed sex [possibly since your last visit unless you work there in which case you should express your interest in this issue], and labelled them 'gender neutral' and the question is - how many females ones are left and are they easily accessible.

This morning, no.

That was certainly the case at my last visit. There are a lot of womens bathrooms in the Barbican complex. My understanding is only one of them have been converted to gender neutral. I can't remember if that had happened on my last visit or not, but even if new, if it is just one then there are still a lot of womens bathrooms about.

Thanks Clymene . Not sure where I am supposed to go. A series of gender neutral cubicles next to each mean that I am likely to be in a space while vulnerable next to someone with their dick out. I want to go to a women only space.

@AlisonDonut

I was referring to finding a toilet and the signposting involved. There is nothing to indicate it is harder for women to find a toilet than men.

I thought a female person had asked a staff member so why would she ask a staff member if they are so easy to find?

Do you work there, is that it?

Well given that this person who contacted Lucy Allen:

(a) felt the need to make a political point to the person working in the Barbican (why would the person she asked care why she wanted to know where the womens toilet was unless she wanted to make a point); and

(b) felt the need to contact an MP about someone allegedly being a bit rude in a theatre - and not even the MP where the theatre is located, but an MP with a history of making stuff up,

I would not assume that there was any actual difficulty in finding the womens toilets. The Barbican is very well sign posted.

So what are the facts?

Fact 1: Women are poorly served by public toilet provision because we typically take longer and are typically afforded the same amount of space which means many more men can use them than women in an equivalent space (because men can use urinals. Yes I know this is obvious).

Fact 2: the Barbican has rebranded some of its women's toilets to be gender neutral, thereby reducing the provision of women's toilets further still.

I can't see how even @TeaKlaxon can argue with that.

@334bu

*but not really anything to do with the OP, which is the blatant misinformation by Lucy Allen.*

So where are the women's toilets? Are they beside all the others? Are they easy to find? How many are there?

Read the thread, maybe.

I can't remember off hand precisely where all womens toilets are in the Barbican.

But of course this is precisely what Lucy Allen wants - a bunch of gender critical folk demanding that unless you've memorised the floor plans of the Barbican (and indeed, checked that they are accurate as of this morning) then clearly the claims that women are being erased must be true. It's nonsense.

There are women's toilets on pretty much every floor of the Barbican. Not a single person on here who has actually been to the Barbican has ever had any trouble finding a womens toilet there.

OP, are you seriously claiming that a woman wanting to use a woman-only toilet is 'making a political point'?

Have you really got so little empathy that you can't think of multiple reasons why a woman might want to use a woman-only toilet?

No difficulty?

Just further away, on a different level, not with the other loos.

And you find it unreasonable for women to be just a tad fucked off about it?

Asking where the women's toilets are is 'making a political point'? Is asking where the men's toilets are making a political point or is it only women who aren't allowed single sex toilets?

@Clymene

So what are the facts?

Fact 1: Women are poorly served by public toilet provision because we typically take longer and are typically afforded the same amount of space which means many more men can use them than women in an equivalent space (because men can use urinals. Yes I know this is obvious).

Fact 2: the Barbican has rebranded some of its women's toilets to be gender neutral, thereby reducing the provision of women's toilets further still.

I can't see how even @TeaKlaxon can argue with that.

I'm not arguing with that.

Lucy Allen wasn't complaining about queues in the women's toilet. She was complaining about the implication that there were gents and gender neutral toilets but no womens toilets.

There obviously are women's toilets. Quite a lot of them.

Are there enough for the extremely busy periods during shows to avoid queues? Probably not. Has converting one set of loos to gender neutral impacted on queuing times for women? I've seen no evidence of that, but its irrelevant to the thread - since the complaint was not that someone had to queue, but there was a claim that they couldn't find women's toilets and an implication that they don't exist.

And I have had great difficulty in finding the women's toilets in the Barbican.

@SamphiretheStickerist

No difficulty?

Just further away, on a different level, not with the other loos.

And you find it unreasonable for women to be just a tad fucked off about it?

Sounds very "back of the bus", doesn't it?

It really does!

@heathspeedwell

OP, are you seriously claiming that a woman wanting to use a woman-only toilet is 'making a political point'?

Have you really got so little empathy that you can't think of multiple reasons why a woman might want to use a woman-only toilet?

A woman wanting to use a woman's toilet is fine.

A woman explaining to an usher why she would not use the gender neutral toilets is making a political point. Why in the hell does she thinks that usher gives a crap why she won't use the gender neutral toilet.

So no, there is a big difference between someone saying 'excuse me, where is the women's bathrooms' and someone saying 'I'm not going to use a gender neutral toilet because I don't have a gender'.

The latter is clearly on some mission to find offence, the former is just looking to find the toilet.

So no, this mysterious Barbican patron who thought the MP for Telford is their best chance of publicising their views was not just looking for the womens toilet. She was looking to make a point. And Lucy Allen was very happy to spread her misinformation.

You're the one making the implication @TeaKlaxon. Lucy Allen is quoting a woman saying that she couldn't find the ladies, she asked a member of staff who laughed at her.

You're the one who made up the lie that she said there are no longer any women's toilets. No one said that except you.

@Clymene

And I have had great difficulty in finding the women's toilets in the Barbican.

When?

Even though they are pretty much on every floor, and given that almost the entire space is covered in signage?

@SamphiretheStickerist

No difficulty?

Just further away, on a different level, not with the other loos.

And you find it unreasonable for women to be just a tad fucked off about it?

You know its common for not all loos to be placed together, right?

Depending on building design, it's often not possible to do that.

A woman explaining to an usher why she would not use the gender neutral toilets is making a political point. Why in the hell does she thinks that usher gives a crap why she won't use the gender neutral toilet.

Or maybe she's a victim of rape or sexual assault or is on her period or has 100 other reasons why she wants a single-sex space and if she doesn't speak up other women will suffer too.

If you really think this isn't about forcing women to share their spaces, why do you think they didn't change the mens toilets? Why don't they make the gender neutral toilets the ones that are isolated from all of the others. Why isn't it the womens that are in the most obvious spaces?

@Clymene

You're the one making the implication *@TeaKlaxon*. Lucy Allen is quoting a woman saying that she couldn't find the ladies, she asked a member of staff who laughed at her.

You're the one who made up the lie that she said there are no longer any women's toilets. No one said that except you.

The tweet says there were gents and gender neutral toilets.

Clear implication being that that was all there was.

Just as that is the clear implication of the GB News presenter's tweet about the Belfast pub.

All misinformation.

I am going to repost the tweet again.

I received this message today: “I was at the Barbican yesterday where there were male toilets, disabled toilets, and gender neutral toilets. I asked where were the female toilets as I am not gender neutral I am a woman and they laughed in my face. Women are being erased.”

It seems that OP has either misinterpreted the tweet, which many many on twitter did. Or is claiming that the person who complained to the MP was not worthy of excellent customer service.

Either way, is OP going to apologise and delete their thread which is clearly spreading misinformation. And now has moved on to casting aspersions about the woman who complained as well.

Of course, the woman who complained is likely to be that MPs constituent. A person complains to their own MP. It is even stated that MPs who receive emails from people outside their constituency should not expect a reply.

So what - you think the various lesbians who have told us about their experiences being challenged in womens bathrooms by people who think they are men or are trans are just lying?

So it's ok for you to use what someone has 'told you' and share that around as fact, but when someone else does it they're using Trump style tactics to spread misinformation 🤔

Aside from that butch women are still women and look like butch women not a male in a dress, if men weren't pushing to invade our spaces it wouldn't be an issue.

What do you get out of pushing women's boundaries OP? We have said no and that should've been the end of the discussion. Why keep pushing us instead of coming up with a positive solution for some males wanting separate spaces away from other males?