To wonder why an MP is lying about womens bathrooms?

[TeaKlaxon]

Lucy Allen has tweeted that the Barbican has mens bathrooms and gender neutral bathrooms, but no womens bathrooms.

Lots of twitter users told her that was wrong.

The Barbican itself told her it's wrong.

But the tweet remains. AIBU to think that if an MP gets something wrong, they should apologise and remove the lie? Or to think that this is deliberate misinformation to further the myth of women being 'erased'?

twitter.com/lucyallan/status/1507076111871713282?s=20&t=D_TGgQBlnKkKZ6NEIjnzsw

There was mens and womens last year when I went plus a block of gender neutral ones elsewhere in the complex.

@HoveringDonkeyofKnock

I asked where were the female toilets as I am not gender neutral

That’s a bit pathetic. What are disabled people supposed to do, disabled toilets are usually gender neutral.

I don’t hear disabled people saying excuse me Jan but I’m a woman not a gender neutral.

Disabled Lavatories tend to be SINGLE. Only one person ( Or more if known to them) goes in at a time.

It’s not like shared space where a penis wielder can be, to alarm women.
I have been disconcerted by a male body usingba female lavatory in A Library .

The “Mens” was next door.
This person didn’t even shut the cubicle door.

"The point is there will be places in the building where it takes a bit more effort to find out where the toilet you need is. That is just a fact of life that there will never be sign posts within eyeline everywhere."

Hence my reference to Hitchhiker's and Beware of the Leopard.

I expect there to be a sign for disabled toilets, men's toilets and women's toilets in sight of each other. As they are in most places. Particularly large entertainment venues. Why isn't it "women's and gender neutral "?
Why should 51% of the population have to go to "a bit more effort" to find a sex specific toilet. It took women so long to get sex specific public toilets in the first place. Why should it be a Taskmaster challenge to find one now.

Again, I will just keep reposting the actual tweet:

I received this message today: “I was at the Barbican yesterday where there were male toilets, disabled toilets, and gender neutral toilets. I asked where were the female toilets as I am not gender neutral I am a woman and they laughed in my face. Women are being erased.”

So, to repeat, a woman asked where the female toilets were and was laughed at!

It seems the complainer was laughed at and may have not been told where the supposedly many, but not necessarily easy or quick to find for some people, female toilets were.

And we have OP calling people liars and insisting the MP is lying.

I am not sure how a person complaining to their MP is helped in this instance by a blanket statement as to how many toilets of what kind the Barbican has.

The right thing to actually have done as the Barbican would be (and I assume they must have as they are supposed to be a professional lot) to say, we are sorry to hear that the woman visiting our venue was laughed at and not helped by our staff. We will investigate this situation and get back to her.

Not sure what this has to do with the topic of the thread, which is Lucy Allen's false claim (or implication...) that the Barbican doesn't have women's bathrooms

Dodging my questions? Now there's a surprise...

As several women have pointed out, there don't seem to be any specifically labelled Women's loos (not bathrooms) at the Barbican. Or if they are they are so hidden away that even the staff there aren't sure where they are.

@334bu

So how many female toilets are there in the Barbican ? Are they hidden away or readily accessible? Are they signposted or not?

This.

The Barbican is so big, I can imagine them putting one female only toilet in, hidden away in the depths of the building, needing a map and compass to find it just so that they can sy 'we do have female toilets'...

But what are the facts? How many toilets and what are their 'titles'? There is no point actually banging on about liars/non liars etc until the actual situation is understood.

So are you comfortable with an MP spreading lies or not?
@TeaKlaxon David Lammy said that men can grow a cerxix, did you make a thread about that?

@bellinisurge

"The point is there will be places in the building where it takes a bit more effort to find out where the toilet you need is. That is just a fact of life that there will never be sign posts within eyeline everywhere."

Hence my reference to Hitchhiker's and Beware of the Leopard.

I expect there to be a sign for disabled toilets, men's toilets and women's toilets in sight of each other. As they are in most places. Particularly large entertainment venues. Why isn't it "women's and gender neutral "?
Why should 51% of the population have to go to "a bit more effort" to find a sex specific toilet. It took women so long to get sex specific public toilets in the first place. Why should it be a Taskmaster challenge to find one now.

What makes you think that 51% of the population have to go to a bit more effort.

If a man happened to be near the women's bathrooms, and the men's bathroom was not clearly signposted from there, he might also have to go to a bit more effort to find where he needs to go.

The nature of building design means its not always possible to have all bathrooms right next to each other.

It's generally not particularly difficult to find yourself to a place in the Barbican where the toilet you are looking for is clearly signposted - there are a lot of signs in the Barbican. Someone complaining there isn't a sign in the very specific place they happen to be stood at one particular time is being a bit pathetic IMO.

What makes you think that 51% of the population have to go to a bit more effort.

Well, in toilets generally, there are less female ones so it is par for the course.

I've never been anywhere where they were queuing out the door of the mens' whilst the ladies' was free flowing so to speak. Ever.

@334bu

So how many female toilets are there in the Barbican ? Are they hidden away or readily accessible? Are they signposted or not?

I've not done an actual survey on my visits, but I've never had a problem, there are quite a lot of toilets there. I think the issue is being greatly overstated for certain reasons (and the tweet in the original post seems to be part of that).

For toilet errrm "enthusiasts" (and Mumsnet seems to attract them) apparently it's all being redone soon anyway:
www.procurement.co.uk/tender_details/7d2092b0-fead-439b-a3b4-2479d8bddbb5

@Pluvia

Not sure what this has to do with the topic of the thread, which is Lucy Allen's false claim (or implication...) that the Barbican doesn't have women's bathrooms

Dodging my questions? Now there's a surprise...

As several women have pointed out, there don't seem to be any specifically labelled Women's loos (not bathrooms) at the Barbican. Or if they are they are so hidden away that even the staff there aren't sure where they are.

That is just not true.

There are women's toilets at the Barbican, and they are not hidden. In fact from memory there are women's toilets on pretty much every floor. Certainly that is the case in and around the main auditorium, which is the part of the Barbican I am most familiar with.

Anyone claiming that there aren't any women's toilets, or that they are in some way hidden away, are lying.

@HoveringDonkeyofKnock

I asked where were the female toilets as I am not gender neutral

That’s a bit pathetic. What are disabled people supposed to do, disabled toilets are usually gender neutral.

I don’t hear disabled people saying excuse me Jan but I’m a woman not a gender neutral.

Disabled toilets are self-contained rooms for the use of one person at a time. They do not come with a row of urinals like the "gender neutral" toilets pictured up thread.

OP, you are just plain wrong here. The tweet doesn't say there are no women's toilets so it doesn't really matter if there are or not (in terms of whether the MP is spreading misinformation). The tweet says that a person was laughed at for asking where the women's toilets were. None of us can say whether that actually happened, but I'm not sure why you find it difficult to believe.

I actually have seen UK toilets being "policed" - in clubs when I was younger, where many times women challenged men who attempted to follow a young woman into the women's toilets.

@AlisonDonut

What makes you think that 51% of the population have to go to a bit more effort.

Well, in toilets generally, there are less female ones so it is par for the course.

I've never been anywhere where they were queuing out the door of the mens' whilst the ladies' was free flowing so to speak. Ever.

That's a different issue though.

I was referring to finding a toilet and the signposting involved. There is nothing to indicate it is harder for women to find a toilet than men.

Of course you are right that there tend to be queues for womens toilets and not for mens at show interval times. That's a good argument for there being more women's toilets - but not really anything to do with the OP, which is the blatant misinformation by Lucy Allen.

"Someone complaining there isn't a sign in the very specific place they happen to be stood at one particular time is being a bit pathetic IMO."
How very dare someone who is trying to access a toilet in a public place complain.

There are women's toilets at the Barbican, and they are not hidden. In fact from memory there are women's toilets on pretty much every floor. Certainly that is the case in and around the main auditorium, which is the part of the Barbican I am most familiar with.

Have you popped there this morning to check?

I guess the issue is that they have changed some of the female toilets to mixed sex [possibly since your last visit unless you work there in which case you should express your interest in this issue], and labelled them 'gender neutral' and the question is - how many females ones are left and are they easily accessible.

I was referring to finding a toilet and the signposting involved. There is nothing to indicate it is harder for women to find a toilet than men.

Apart from staff members laughing in womens faces when they ask where the ladies toilets are?

Bet they wouldn't have laughed in a man's face.

That's a good argument for there being more women's toilets

It is, isn't it? And not converting them to mixed sex ones that many women don't want to use.

I was referring to finding a toilet and the signposting involved. There is nothing to indicate it is harder for women to find a toilet than men.

I thought a female person had asked a staff member so why would she ask a staff member if they are so easy to find?

Do you work there, is that it?

If you have to ask a member of staff, it's not easy to find. If that member of staff laughs in your face, they should be fired. AND it says something about the culture of the place that they think it's ok to do this.

@SalsaLove

Bathroom sounds nicer than toilet.

But it is incorrect to call a toilet/lavatory a bathroom!

A "bathroom" is a room with a bath in it: it may or may not also contain a toilet/lavatory.

There is nothing to indicate that women's toilets are harder to find.

Except this photo which clearly shows the women's toilets have been converted into gender neutral ones.

I don't know what the third one is at the back but a gender neutral toilet is , by definition, not a sex-specific one. Why not change the men's to gender neutral if allegedly it's not an issue.

Quite frankly the toilet argument is the thin end of the wedge, you won't find TRAs like the op going gung ho into conversations about rape crisis and medicalisation of children under the gender ideology banner as it is not as easy to dismiss such concerns.

I agree it is not possible to police, and transsexuals have been using with no problems for years, but the trans train today is very different- eg you have grown men filming themselves walking in women's toilets dressed as a woman, by crossing the boundaries in such a manner you cause lines to be drawn.

Wanking not walking